FAS

[schatzperson]

I just got my hands on a FAS 603 in nice condition.
I have to admit that though I have shot for many years and thats with many different sort of handguns, this is probably the first with a trigger thats not simple single stage.
So before I mess things up I thought I will ask, just why would anybody need a two stage or roll trigger on an ISSF centre fire pistol.
In my INexperience I would have thought that a single stage would be ok for the slow part and for some reason I always thought of roll triggers as usefull only for rapid fire.
But then again, I guess I must be missing vital elements.

I could not resist touching up the trigger adjustments; One strange feature, is that I could not seem to be able to get rid of what I would consider a too long a travel of first stage.

Would appreciate some feedback (before my troglodite hands reach for the Smith 14 again :-)

[David Levene]

You should be careful not to adjust the free play out of the front end. After that, the FAS trigger was designed to have a 2 stage trigger, not rollover. It is not normally possible to shorten the length of the first stage.

If your gun feels like it has a rollover trigger then you should turn the small allen screw on the back of the hammer box counter clockwise a tiny bit at a time. What do I mean by "a tiny bit"? If you put the short end of the key into the screw then, if you feel any movement on the long end, that's "a tiny bit"; sometimes called "cracking" the screw.

The beauty of the FAS trigger, when properly adjusted, is that it is easy to hold the trigger at the end of the first stage at the ready position.

edit note: FAS pistols made in the last 3-4 years have an externally similar, but internally different hammer box. IMHO it is not possible to achieve the same quality of 1st/2nd stage "wall" as on the older guns.

[RMinUT]

I agree the FAS has a long first stage. The pistols do not have the adjustability of, say a Pardini SP, but there is some adjustments in there to play with. I always take up the first stage while in the ready and have just made that part of my shot process. Don't really notice it anymore.
The 603 has been a favorite of mine to the point that I bought a 602 for standard events. It also has the long first stage.

[schatzperson]

Felt a little more adventurous with your comments;
For a start, the trigger felt like one continuous pull, with no "wall"...you just pull ( no creep or grinds, very smooth ) and then the shot breaks unannounced. Dont know, but this might even be good for a surprise break.

Turning the allen screw at the back of the box, in small increments I arrived at a point where I could feel almost a "bump"; Further pressure trips the sear , again ever so smooth.

I took measurements with Lee trigger balance:
1070 up to the "bump" and 1156 g for release.

Dont know if the "bump" is normal ( you can almost hear it).
Possibly my inexperience will find the 100 odd grams between stages will not earn me points with the duty RO !

[David Levene]

Dont know if the "bump" is normal ( you can almost hear it).

Does it feel like your pushing a ball up a hill and it rolls into a little dip, seeming to need less pressure to hold it there than it took to get it there?
Does it feel like a "click"?

If the answer is "yes" then it's now adjusted correctly.

[mister G]

Although this page is from the 602 manual, it should apply to the 603 as well.

[schatzperson]

Thanks for all your help guys.
Now I am begining to understand this pistol a little better.
I am a bit concerned about the 1070 gm or so first stage though.
This leaves me less than 100 gm for a trigger break at circa 1156.

I think its a quick way to drill a few holes in the table or plow the lawn.

Not that I mind the 1156gm letoff, but if I reduce the first stage only, will the total weight change commensurately ?
In which case I will then have to increase the second stage also, no?

[David Levene]

Not that I mind the 1156gm letoff, but if I reduce the first stage only, will the total weight change commensurately ?
In which case I will then have to increase the second stage also, no?

It's easy. You just reduce the first stage trigger pressure by turning the screw in the trigger counter-clockwise and then increase the overall pressure by turning the slot head screw in the back of the hammer box clockwise.

If you still feel the need for more definition between the stages you can crack the allen screw in the back of the hammer box counter clockwise, but you run the risk of losing the click at the end of the first stage.

[schatzperson]

Just out of curiousity, is an 80 to 100 gm diff. between first and second stage normally considered a tad too close for comfort ?

I can see where this setting might help me in the slow fire stage, but might also earn me a red face during duelling.

So far, in the comfort of home, I can easily take up the first and feel the "slot", with my shooting hand at 45 degrees; So maybe I could just leave it as is and practice.
One other method could be to drop into the "slot" as the arm is moving to the shooting position. However you'll be dealing with 2 dynamics at the same time in this way.

Thanks for the help guys !

[David Levene]

So far, in the comfort of home, I can easily take up the first and feel the "slot", with my shooting hand at 45 degrees; So maybe I could just leave it as is and practice.

That's how I always shot my FASs, 602 and 603. I never shot a worm.

The only time I didn't do it was when we arrived at a range in Scotland and found a low brick wall just in front of the firing point. The fact that I'd never let a shot go at the ready before did nothing to detract from the realisation of the likely result on that range. There was only one place a ricochet would land up.

As I suggested earlier, if you are having problems and feel the difference is just too small, crack the allen screw back a tiny amount. Hopefully you will still feel the slot.

I will admit that I haven't got any experience in what happens when you try to lower the trigger weight of the 603 from the designed 1360g towards 1000g. The sears on the 602 and 603 were different, probably for a good reason.

[schatzperson]

I had one more go at the FAS 603 trigger and tried to take it down from its intended 1360 to 1000 gm.
With the first and second stages adjusted for lightest , the best I could get was a trigger break at circa 1140 gm.
The first stage smooths into the "click" at 1080 grams; A further pull of 60 gms or so and the trigger breaks.

I have set the allen screw at the back for what I would consider most distinct separation ( in a quiet room at night you can hear the click).

The question now for (myself at least), is whether to leave it as it is and risk an accidental discharge, or raise the second stage and suffer the consequencies of a heavier trigger.

In reality, I have to say that this is my first 2 stage trigger gun, and I find I have to take up the first stage slowly in order not to have an AD ( eating up some of those 7 seconds).

I am inclined to say, the hell with it! and just plod on and train with the delicate 45 degree climb with my trigger finger on a 60 gm or less trigger.

Am I being presumtuous or just plain stupid ?

[Tycho]

Change the 1st stage spring. It's a flat spring in the front part of the trigger, and it's different for 1360 vs. 1000 gr triggers. We used to have 1'360gr for .22 in Switzerland until a few years ago, and when they changed the rulebook, most FAS needed a new spring to make adjustable for a nice 1000gr.

[David Levene]

Change the 1st stage spring. It's a flat spring in the front part of the trigger

Good idea, but I'm not sure what you mean by calling it a "flat" spring; it's very bent.

Unless you have access to someone with a wide range of FAS springs you might have a problem finding a different weight replacement. I can think of 4 different 602 springs and 3 different 603 springs over the years.

[schatzperson]

Tycho might be referring to the wire spring that has one end resting on the rear of the first stage adjustment allen bolt.

Does anybody know where to get the 1000 gm, 603 version ?

[schatzperson]

Part number 315 ?

[David Levene]

Tycho might be referring to the wire spring that has one end resting on the rear of the first stage adjustment allen bolt.

I'm sure he is, that's the first stage spring.

My point is that there have been several designs of spring on both 602 & 603. Some were a normal round wire, others had flat sides (maybe that's what Tycho was talking about). Just to confuse things further, some 603s had triggers adjustable for reach, others were fixed. The spring positions and designs were different.

[schatzperson]

Hmm, well for the moment I'll just train dry with the gun as adjusted and see if I can control raising the shooting arm with no AD while holding such a reduced second stage.

In the meantime I'll ask around for FAS parts, maybe dominoguns.com might help.

[David Levene]

In the meantime I'll ask around for FAS parts, maybe dominoguns.com might help.

I doubt it. The only person I know who might have all of the spring designs is Viktor Odermatt near Zurich. There are probably others but my jaw is still recovering from hitting the floor the first time I saw his stock of FAS spares.

[schatzperson]

Should be a good idea to ask him first.
Have you a contact email please ?
Thanks!

[David Levene]

Have you a contact email please ?

I haven't got an email adress for him. His phone number is +44 760 00 30 and fax is +44 760 00 32