Definitely, I cannot shoot well with a double-stage trigger

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:25 pm

I’ve been shooting Sport Pistol and Standard Pistol with a double-stage trigger for over a year now. My objective was to release the trigger as smoothly as possible, but I came up with the conclusion that I cannot shoot well with a double-stage trigger—I jerk the trigger too often upon finding the increased weight resistance of the second stage. Therefore, I am going to set up my pistol with a single stage trigger see if my scores go up significantly. Does someone else here on the forum have a similar experience?

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:40 pm

How much time did you try just dry firing by siting in a chair just pulling the trigger to get the feel of it? This is how you learn smooth trigger control.

Freepistol · Post by **Freepistol** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:08 pm

I prefer a long rolling single stage over the double stage. I feel I can keep the thing moving without anticipating the sear release. I think you will like not knowing when the pistol is close to firing, which should help eliminate the trigger jerk.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:14 pm

How much time did you try just dry firing by siting in a chair just pulling the trigger to get the feel of it? This is how you learn smooth trigger control.

Five to seven days a week during a year and two months. Plus actual live fire at the range a couple time a week. I have to say I've been using a rather crisp second stage, maybe a bit more of a roll on the second stage would have been helpful. I've been struggling all this time trying to find an advantage to this double-stage trigger over a single-stage trigger but I could not find any. This is just my personal experience during this time.

So far, I tried a bit of an experiment: I set some roll on the second stage together with more weight in the first stage to make it slightly ressembling a single-stage trigger and my scores went from an average of 520 to 540 points.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:26 pm

I prefer a long rolling single stage over the double stage. I feel I can keep the thing moving without anticipating the sear release. I think you will like not knowing when the pistol is close to firing, which should help eliminate the trigger jerk.

I feel so too and that's what I will be experimenting soon. But I would like to know why I don't shoot any better with a double-stage trigger and why so many people preffer a double-stage trigger. What is the theoretical advantage of shooting with a double-stage trigger in Sport Pistol and Standard Pistol? To my regret, I couldn't find it yet! :-( So far it's only a hindrance to me as it only helps me jerk the trigger. This is just my experience.

LukeP · Post by **LukeP** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:27 pm

Anonymous wrote:
How much time did you try just dry firing by siting in a chair just pulling the trigger to get the feel of it? This is how you learn smooth trigger control.
Five to seven days a week during a year and two months. Plus actual live fire at the range a couple time a week. I have to say I've been using a rather crisp second stage, maybe a bit more of a roll on the second stage would have been helpful. I've been struggling all this time trying to find an advantage to this double-stage trigger over a single-stage trigger but I could not find any. This is just my personal experience during this time.

So far, I tried a bit of an experiment: I set some roll on the second stage together with more weight in the first stage to make it slightly ressembling a single-stage trigger and my scores went from an average of 520 to 540 points.

Your score are pretty low for you efforts, maybe your training is toward the wrong way..
Where do you suffer? 20s or 10s?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:39 pm

Your score are pretty low for you efforts, maybe your training is toward the wrong way..

I think so too! But I don't know where to focus my efforts now... I guess I need some help.

Where do you suffer? 20s or 10s?

Actually, everywhere. :-( 150s: 20s; and 10s for Standard Pistol and 5min and 3sec for Sport pistol. Fliers --kerking of the trigger-- can happen anywhere.

Oz · Post by Oz » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:17 am

Personally, I believe this issue has much deeper roots than the statement alone. This is 100% mental training. You've just instructed your subconscious and have stated very strongly that you can't shoot with a double-stage trigger. Since you really believe this, the only solution's available to you is to either not use a double-state trigger since you will never be able to shoot well with one, or you could realize and actually believe that the statement is false.

Oz

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:04 am

Anonymous wrote:What is the theoretical advantage of shooting with a double-stage trigger in Sport Pistol and Standard Pistol? To my regret, I couldn't find it yet! :-( So far it's only a hindrance to me as it only helps me jerk the trigger.

The 2-stage trigger allows you to more easily take up the majority of the trigger pressure at the ready position. What is left is easily incorporated into the last stage of the raise from the ready position.

If you find that the 2-stage trigger is causing you to jerk the final release then you probably haven't trained your trigger finger enough.

This works best with a properly designed trigger; one where the end of the first stage is obvious. Setting the second stage too light can reduce the confidence in being able to hold the trigger at the end of the first stage.

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:56 am

David Levene wrote:
Anonymous wrote: If you find that the 2-stage trigger is causing you to jerk the final release then you probably haven't trained your trigger finger enough.

This works best with a properly designed trigger; one where the end of the first stage is obvious. Setting the second stage too light can reduce the confidence in being able to hold the trigger at the end of the first stage.

I agree with David. If your trigger control is poor then it will still be poor, irrespective of how many stages your trigger has. You may find a 1 stage gives you a small honeymoon period whilst it's new and you're learning the different feel, but you will encounter the same problems.

The simple solution is to train the trigger. Do lots and lots of dry firing and practice just pulling smoothly. Do the same training live fire.

It will come together with good training.

Rob.

Reinhamre · Post by **Reinhamre** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:17 am

Cycle the trigger fast back and forth the first stage 20 times. IF you release the trigger, then first stage must be lighter and second heavier!
You MUST be comfortable about going to where second stage begins when shooting. What works in a chair at home does not count!
Then you start to see the trigger as a single stage trigger. I think that you tend to concentrate on WHERE the second stage begin. The difference must make you confident. With training you will be comfortable with less difference.
Kent

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:57 pm

The 2-stage trigger allows you to more easily take up the majority of the trigger pressure at the ready position. What is left is easily incorporated into the last stage of the raise from the ready position.

My pistol came adjusted from the factory with most of the weight on the second stage of the trigger. Then I adjusted it to be half on the first stage and the other half of the weight on the second stage. Maybe this is what was causing me to jerk the trigger so often? I now have adjusted the second stage to have a minimal weight. The length of the first stage is 2/3 and the length of the second stage is 1/3 while the overall travel of the trigger shoe at the farthest point from its axe is less than 3 mm. I will try this new set up with live fire anytime during the next few days.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:02 pm

then first stage must be lighter and second heavier

My trigger was set up at the factory with most of its weight on the second stage. I adjusted the weight to be half of it on each stage right before shooting my pistol for the first time. Maybe this is what was making me jerk the trigger? I now have adjusted the trigger to have most its weight on the first stage and very little of it on the second stage.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:09 pm

Anonymous wrote:
The 2-stage trigger allows you to more easily take up the majority of the trigger pressure at the ready position. What is left is easily incorporated into the last stage of the raise from the ready position.
My pistol came adjusted from the factory with most of the weight on the second stage of the trigger. Then I adjusted it to be half on the first stage and the other half of the weight on the second stage. Maybe this is what was causing me to jerk the trigger so often? I now have adjusted the second stage to have a minimal weight. The length of the first stage is 2/3 and the length of the second stage is 1/3 while the overall travel of the trigger shoe at the farthest point from its axe is less than 3 mm. I will try this new set up with live fire anytime during the next few days.

I think you might gave forgotten the bit where I said:-

David Levene wrote:Setting the second stage too light can reduce the confidence in being able to hold the trigger at the end of the first stage.

How much time are you allowing to get the best from each different setup. I get the impression, and I could be wrong, that you are only giving it days and a few hundred "clicks". You might want to persevere for a few months and several thousand clicks/bangs.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:33 pm

I tried this new trigger set up today. My scores are getting better... I only need to fit my grip now so it doesn't have plenty of air pockets--there's this huge air space between my knuckles and the stock. I had zero "accidental discharges" so the weight of the second stage should be fine. Trigger-wise I have no complains now. But grip-wise I'm afraid I need the Yur' Yev of grip fitting now... does that exist?

The only thing is I need to get used to the trigger again as I failed to complately release the trigger shoe a few times on the 10-sec series so the trigger mechanism didn't reset... which gave me some nice 4-shot series... else, that would probably have been in the 550+ ball park... never shot that good before. :-)

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:35 am

Anonymous wrote:I tried this new trigger set up today. My scores are getting better... I only need to fit my grip now so it doesn't have plenty of air pockets--there's this huge air space between my knuckles and the stock. I had zero "accidental discharges" so the weight of the second stage should be fine. Trigger-wise I have no complains now. But grip-wise I'm afraid I need the Yur' Yev of grip fitting now... does that exist?

The only thing is I need to get used to the trigger again as I failed to complately release the trigger shoe a few times on the 10-sec series so the trigger mechanism didn't reset... which gave me some nice 4-shot series... else, that would probably have been in the 550+ ball park... never shot that good before. :-)

There are tips and guides out there as to how to get the grip to fit. Simply put though you're aiming for a solid fit in the hand with no 'air gaps' and such that the gun comfortably (and repeatably) points in the correct direction.

Rob.