Once again we are reminded that many of the more successful USA medal winners in the winter olympics earned their success "outside" the formal USOC structure.
Frustrated with the politics, favoritism, and bureaucracy of the NGBs for their disciplines, athletes (like Bode Miller, Shaun White, Lindsey Vonn, Shani Davis, etc.) have formed their own "maverick" organizations outside the official NGB structure/team support to train and prepare.
Of course- they still have to "come over to the dark side" to win team spots at their selection matches, still controlled by their NGBs.
Check out today's all Street Journal (page W12) for additional background.
In the shooting sports, we have a same/different? situation:
- Grossly underfunded USAS resident athlete/JOC focused system
- USAMU team "machine" filling in the gaps at the "adult"
- Ocasional "Maverick" athletes (Demerest, Zurek) doing the outsider/insider transition
What say you (USA and nations with similar systems) fellow enthusiasts? Could we (?) should we (?) look for a better system for managing the outsider/insider model used successfully by athletes in the winter events?
Would the NRA be a viable organization for supporting/feeding this outsider/insider track for athletes?
Private industry (a consortium of shooting sports companies dissatisfied with the reslts of USAS donations)?
Just trying to think outside the ammo box here . . .
"A Festivus for the Rest of Us" so to speak.
"Outsider" Olympics?
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
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Freepistol
- Posts: 773
- Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:52 pm
- Location: Berwick, PA
A huge factor is the equipment being used {promoted} by the athlete. Notice how Lindsey, Bode, and the others show the name on the bottom of their ski at the end of the run to get the weekend skier to purchase the winning skis. What value is there for a US company when the 50 meter event winner holds up his highly modified TOZ?
I agree, though, we need a new training system.
Ben
I agree, though, we need a new training system.
Ben
outsiders
Hi: I agree and there was an attempt some years ago being pushed/promoted by some folks in Canada for a World Shooting Federation that would take in all the other disciplines outside the Olympics, etc. It did not get off the ground though. Another idea is the World Masters Games and the other, annual Masters Games that are held around the world. These are for people usually over 40 or so to get together, have some fun, shoot some more or less ISSF type matches, sightsee another country and just generally have a good time. I do wish that more effort and $$ was put into lower end/introductory people to get them into the pipeline for the Games, etc. Hope someone can get something going, and I would be glad to help. Don in Oregon
I may be wrong but I thought USAS came into being because there are issues with the NRA being a political organization and being a NGB at the same time.
It's like everything else without money it's almost impossible to get something started and without actually having something it's impossible to get money, the old catch-22.
The ISSF's sole fascination with the Olympics and their willingness to do whatever is requested or even suggested of them by the IOC, even at the detriment of the sports does not bode well for the future of our sport.
What we need is to come-up with a X-Games shooting sport, then we could have the likes of Red Bull, Oakley, Nike paying the bills.
In the end I fear the ISSF will destroy the sport to appease the IOC, and in the end the IOC will kick us to the curb, by that time the sport will be so broken that it will certainly die.
Then there is the stupidity of fighting amongst ourselves in different disciplines as if we don't have enough outside enemies.
It's like everything else without money it's almost impossible to get something started and without actually having something it's impossible to get money, the old catch-22.
The ISSF's sole fascination with the Olympics and their willingness to do whatever is requested or even suggested of them by the IOC, even at the detriment of the sports does not bode well for the future of our sport.
What we need is to come-up with a X-Games shooting sport, then we could have the likes of Red Bull, Oakley, Nike paying the bills.
In the end I fear the ISSF will destroy the sport to appease the IOC, and in the end the IOC will kick us to the curb, by that time the sport will be so broken that it will certainly die.
Then there is the stupidity of fighting amongst ourselves in different disciplines as if we don't have enough outside enemies.
Events like 3-gun, IDPA, Cowboy Action and sporting clays are kind of like the shooting version of the X-Games. Unfortunately, even if you get a sponser its not like 10,000 people are going to go out and buy the spiffy AR-15 you just won the World Champion 3-gun event with. Most of the big names in these shooting sports are sponsered, but what average Joe knows their names? In Europe (and many other countries) the top shooters are known. Biathalon is actually televised. The networks bid on it like our networks bid for football seasons from what I have been told. When was the last time (save for the olympics going on now) that you saw an actual shooting competition televised in the US?? I am talking on a big network, not something that only comes on cable or satelite.
Doubt there would ever be any 3-gun type events in the olympics, too much like a SWAT drill, and well, it basically is.
Doubt there would ever be any 3-gun type events in the olympics, too much like a SWAT drill, and well, it basically is.
Yeah, trouble with the X-Games idea, is that fundamentally shooting is a participation sport, not a spectator sport. Yeah, Biathlon makes up for it by including skiing, and clay pigeons add a visual element. The current ISSF rifle and pistol events though are pretty flat.
The only way to make them good to watch would be to change to IPSA events with movement and "action", which would rightly be lambasted by target shooters. I'd love to see pitches for shooting events that could successfully be pitched to Red Bull and Oakley. I can't see them going for anything other than paintball/airsoft.
The disciplines themselves are not very media friendly, but that's the nature of the game. However, as you say, the ISSF rolling over to everything the IOC suggests is not good for the integrity of the sport or the athletes.
Jacques Rogge said after the luger's death at Vancouver that he would not comment on whether it was pilot error - that was for the sports body (whoever governs Luge) to rule on, as they were the technical experts - not him and not the IOC.
It seems however that they have no problem poking their nose in if they're not receiving enough bids for broadcast rights...
As for the Masters Games. Again, a nice idea, but not necessary in shooting (unless they ban shooting pants!). That's the great thing about shooting - even older shooters can remain competitive into their 40s and 50s as it is a skill based sport.
The only way to make them good to watch would be to change to IPSA events with movement and "action", which would rightly be lambasted by target shooters. I'd love to see pitches for shooting events that could successfully be pitched to Red Bull and Oakley. I can't see them going for anything other than paintball/airsoft.
The disciplines themselves are not very media friendly, but that's the nature of the game. However, as you say, the ISSF rolling over to everything the IOC suggests is not good for the integrity of the sport or the athletes.
Jacques Rogge said after the luger's death at Vancouver that he would not comment on whether it was pilot error - that was for the sports body (whoever governs Luge) to rule on, as they were the technical experts - not him and not the IOC.
It seems however that they have no problem poking their nose in if they're not receiving enough bids for broadcast rights...
As for the Masters Games. Again, a nice idea, but not necessary in shooting (unless they ban shooting pants!). That's the great thing about shooting - even older shooters can remain competitive into their 40s and 50s as it is a skill based sport.
I hate to break the news but the Olympics, is about money. The IOC's main focus is to grow the brand and the revenue. If your sport won't pull it's fair share they'll find something that does. That being said one of the largest sources of income for the IOC is television contracts, so your sport better be or become television friendly. Yes it's nice that shooting has been around since the start and all, but take a look there were other sports in the beginning that aren't around any more. I highly suspect that shooting has come up when discussing the removal of sports for the inclusion of new more television friendly sports. One of these times shooting will find it self with the short straw.
I'll partly agree.
One issue is that the biggest market is the United States...and in the USA, spandex and moneyball sell. Shooting is a participant sport, not a spectator sport.
Another issue is NBC Sports, which is notorious for their obsession with spandex and moneyball. ABC would at least try to show all the sports, and with ESPN and ESPN2 could do a decent job. Kindly note that NBC's contract expires this year.
And yes, the ISSF sells its soul to the IOC too often. Many sports do. We shooters are inclined to be paranoid and parochial...go over to the fencers and ask them about being hunted by the IOC. That's why the good performance of American fencers in Bejing was so critical - it showed that fencing was no longer a"gimme" medal for French, German, and Italian athletes. Kindly note that shooting draws the greatest number of competitors, from the largest number of countries, of any Olympic discipline.
Then add the fact that American gunmakers have forsaken the target gun market totally. It's an understandable business decision - the plinker/hunting/defense markets are bigger and less demanding - but it leaves American (and UK/AUS/etc.) shooters with weak sponsorship.
And sitting like a cherry on top is the NRA's home-brewed brand of competition, which siphons off a lot of resources that otherwise might go to the ISSF events. The Army has an ISSF program, but all services have NRA programs. Which parlays not only into military shooters, but into matches that civilians can participate in.
Now, what can be done? Shooting finals need a golf-style shot-by-shot commentary. I could see a one-shooter-at-a-time ripple-fire final to help this. Toss in competent color commentary, and you've got something. We need to push the cable shooting programs to cover the Olympic disciplines more. And above all, hold local matches. That gets neglected these days.
I'll add one other thing at the grand strategic level...the Summer Games need to be broken up into Spring, Summer, and Autumn Games. The logistics are overwhelming otherwise. A 4-Games breakdown works out to ~12K athletes each, which is do-able.
One issue is that the biggest market is the United States...and in the USA, spandex and moneyball sell. Shooting is a participant sport, not a spectator sport.
Another issue is NBC Sports, which is notorious for their obsession with spandex and moneyball. ABC would at least try to show all the sports, and with ESPN and ESPN2 could do a decent job. Kindly note that NBC's contract expires this year.
And yes, the ISSF sells its soul to the IOC too often. Many sports do. We shooters are inclined to be paranoid and parochial...go over to the fencers and ask them about being hunted by the IOC. That's why the good performance of American fencers in Bejing was so critical - it showed that fencing was no longer a"gimme" medal for French, German, and Italian athletes. Kindly note that shooting draws the greatest number of competitors, from the largest number of countries, of any Olympic discipline.
Then add the fact that American gunmakers have forsaken the target gun market totally. It's an understandable business decision - the plinker/hunting/defense markets are bigger and less demanding - but it leaves American (and UK/AUS/etc.) shooters with weak sponsorship.
And sitting like a cherry on top is the NRA's home-brewed brand of competition, which siphons off a lot of resources that otherwise might go to the ISSF events. The Army has an ISSF program, but all services have NRA programs. Which parlays not only into military shooters, but into matches that civilians can participate in.
Now, what can be done? Shooting finals need a golf-style shot-by-shot commentary. I could see a one-shooter-at-a-time ripple-fire final to help this. Toss in competent color commentary, and you've got something. We need to push the cable shooting programs to cover the Olympic disciplines more. And above all, hold local matches. That gets neglected these days.
I'll add one other thing at the grand strategic level...the Summer Games need to be broken up into Spring, Summer, and Autumn Games. The logistics are overwhelming otherwise. A 4-Games breakdown works out to ~12K athletes each, which is do-able.
Mike your not far off, but unfortunately it's not just NBC, many of the other large media markets aren't interested in shooting either.
I agree shooting in it's present configuration is not spectator friendly, but what's to say it has to be in it's present configuration. That said here we go with selling the sole to stay in the Olympics, we have to decide if the Olympics is really worth changing the essence of the sport. How much do we need to change, what should we keep, what should we shed, what should we add. These are difficult questions that really require vision, a plan for the future and shouldn't be done piece meal as reactions.
One of the worst things they did was to split the women out, in this day and age I'm sure it would garner way more interest with women going head to head with men.
If you want to see what can be done to shooting to spark interest all one has to do is look at the Bundesliga shooting in Germany. Where the matches are shooter against shooter, the crowd is into it they are loud, it's like a hockey game or even closer a curling match. Oh yea it's co-ed too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesliga_(shooting)
I agree shooting in it's present configuration is not spectator friendly, but what's to say it has to be in it's present configuration. That said here we go with selling the sole to stay in the Olympics, we have to decide if the Olympics is really worth changing the essence of the sport. How much do we need to change, what should we keep, what should we shed, what should we add. These are difficult questions that really require vision, a plan for the future and shouldn't be done piece meal as reactions.
One of the worst things they did was to split the women out, in this day and age I'm sure it would garner way more interest with women going head to head with men.
If you want to see what can be done to shooting to spark interest all one has to do is look at the Bundesliga shooting in Germany. Where the matches are shooter against shooter, the crowd is into it they are loud, it's like a hockey game or even closer a curling match. Oh yea it's co-ed too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesliga_(shooting)
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Retired
Re: Outsider Olympics
I am quite amused by the opinions and ideas. But frankly, I'm not sure if you are all looking for viable ideas to improve the way Olympic shooting is managed and promoted or if you're all just trying to figure out ways to get little Billy Bob on the world stage because he can shoot the wings off a fly in flight 25 feet away.
Have any of you actually gone through all the rigors of an Olympic tryout... and earned a spot on the team?
More importantly, have any of you thought about the ramifications of implementing rogue plans to split off?
Do any of you actually know why shooting continues to be in the Olympics and the role the ISSF plays to ensure it stays in the Games?
To my first thought, how many of you believe you or a close friend is a fantastic shooter and you're just trying to figure out a way to the big show?
The Olympic sport of shooting may not be managed perfectly. I know first hand that it isn't. But having said that, incremental changes and improvements are probably more realistic and less damaging than grand plans to take over the sport.
Keep in mind, Olympic style shooting isn't for everyone. That's why we have NRA shooting, american trap and skeet, IPSC, etc., etc., etc. If you do choose to shoot Olympic style shooting, take the time to learn how you make it on an Olympic team and work hard to continually improve. Whatever you do, enjoy it. It is just a sport.
Good luck,
Retired
Have any of you actually gone through all the rigors of an Olympic tryout... and earned a spot on the team?
More importantly, have any of you thought about the ramifications of implementing rogue plans to split off?
Do any of you actually know why shooting continues to be in the Olympics and the role the ISSF plays to ensure it stays in the Games?
To my first thought, how many of you believe you or a close friend is a fantastic shooter and you're just trying to figure out a way to the big show?
The Olympic sport of shooting may not be managed perfectly. I know first hand that it isn't. But having said that, incremental changes and improvements are probably more realistic and less damaging than grand plans to take over the sport.
Keep in mind, Olympic style shooting isn't for everyone. That's why we have NRA shooting, american trap and skeet, IPSC, etc., etc., etc. If you do choose to shoot Olympic style shooting, take the time to learn how you make it on an Olympic team and work hard to continually improve. Whatever you do, enjoy it. It is just a sport.
Good luck,
Retired
I like ISSF precision shooting, that's why I keep coming back to it after trying different things. I love the challenge, I love the need for ultimate accuracy, not just an OK hit that is enough to knock down some steel target.
BUT, where I grew up and where I now live have lost most of the ISSF shooters. When I was a junior we had a winter league and a summer league. Winter was indoor, summer outdoor. There were 6-8 teams in the league. Two years after I went to college there were 4 teams, now there is basically one team left. One entire range that hosted sectional shut down when its team gave it up. Our junior teams range was shut down also - no more junior team. Every year it seems we lose one or two NCAA teams. Where I currently live there is NO ISSF shooting even though there are tons of "gun clubs". They all shoot NRA, 3-Gun, IDPA, etc. I have no idea on how to stop this.
I hope that shooting stays at the Olympics and it stays basically unchanged. To change it much would be to do away with what ISSF shooting is about - accuracy and precision.
BUT, where I grew up and where I now live have lost most of the ISSF shooters. When I was a junior we had a winter league and a summer league. Winter was indoor, summer outdoor. There were 6-8 teams in the league. Two years after I went to college there were 4 teams, now there is basically one team left. One entire range that hosted sectional shut down when its team gave it up. Our junior teams range was shut down also - no more junior team. Every year it seems we lose one or two NCAA teams. Where I currently live there is NO ISSF shooting even though there are tons of "gun clubs". They all shoot NRA, 3-Gun, IDPA, etc. I have no idea on how to stop this.
I hope that shooting stays at the Olympics and it stays basically unchanged. To change it much would be to do away with what ISSF shooting is about - accuracy and precision.
Retired,
Depending on what country you're from earning a spot on the National team might be the easy part, earning an actual quota spot is far harder.
Shooting is in the Olympics because basically the Olympics really are rooted in military games, and shooting was one of the original sports (although none of the original disciplines still exist in the Olympics). Shooting is still in the Olympics mainly because it has a participation base world wide that still warrants a spot and doesn't give them a convenient reason to remove it. Participation in the world though is under constant attack, and the numbers are not increasing.
One person asked about, plans about splitting off that he had heard about years ago, I don't think anyone here is planning a coup.
I coach and have met many shooters that are good enough, how do I know, because they are on various National Teams, compete in the World Cup circuit and some have been to the Olympics. So there's no need to change the rules or the game to get them to the "Big Show".
I do believe it's important to have these discussions and even more important to be actually involved in the sport and it's governance. Here's a little secret, no one is really going to change anything based on the opinions of unknown posters of some web site, you really need to get out there and get involved.
I agree the great thing about shooting is there is something for everyone. But don't be surprised if what we call Olympic shooting today isn't something vastly different in the future, if it survives. I sure the original Olympic shooters would be surprised and maybe even appalled by what we call Olympic shooting today.
Depending on what country you're from earning a spot on the National team might be the easy part, earning an actual quota spot is far harder.
Shooting is in the Olympics because basically the Olympics really are rooted in military games, and shooting was one of the original sports (although none of the original disciplines still exist in the Olympics). Shooting is still in the Olympics mainly because it has a participation base world wide that still warrants a spot and doesn't give them a convenient reason to remove it. Participation in the world though is under constant attack, and the numbers are not increasing.
One person asked about, plans about splitting off that he had heard about years ago, I don't think anyone here is planning a coup.
I coach and have met many shooters that are good enough, how do I know, because they are on various National Teams, compete in the World Cup circuit and some have been to the Olympics. So there's no need to change the rules or the game to get them to the "Big Show".
I do believe it's important to have these discussions and even more important to be actually involved in the sport and it's governance. Here's a little secret, no one is really going to change anything based on the opinions of unknown posters of some web site, you really need to get out there and get involved.
I agree the great thing about shooting is there is something for everyone. But don't be surprised if what we call Olympic shooting today isn't something vastly different in the future, if it survives. I sure the original Olympic shooters would be surprised and maybe even appalled by what we call Olympic shooting today.
Anthony why do you think stopping what someone else enjoys will increase the participation in what you enjoy?
Maybe we need to look at why people don't like International style shooting.
Like I said check out some of the Bundesliga matches, they are on You-tube, It is International style shooting but just far more fun, lively and engaging and it has the modern man against man aspect to it.
I know what your talking about with regards to matches and leagues, I shoot in a Standard Pistol League and its a struggle to get enough guys out from some clubs to make the 5 person team score. The rifle league I shot in keeps getting smaller and smaller. Matches are disappearing and getting smaller.
We can stick our heads in the sand and pretend everything is alright but when the base of athletes is gone the top will start to suffer. Something needs to change and the problem isn't confined to the just the US.
Maybe we need to look at why people don't like International style shooting.
Like I said check out some of the Bundesliga matches, they are on You-tube, It is International style shooting but just far more fun, lively and engaging and it has the modern man against man aspect to it.
I know what your talking about with regards to matches and leagues, I shoot in a Standard Pistol League and its a struggle to get enough guys out from some clubs to make the 5 person team score. The rifle league I shot in keeps getting smaller and smaller. Matches are disappearing and getting smaller.
We can stick our heads in the sand and pretend everything is alright but when the base of athletes is gone the top will start to suffer. Something needs to change and the problem isn't confined to the just the US.
I think was a little misunderstood. I don't mind that the other aspects of shooting sports are more popular around my area - I would rather people be shooting in any discipline than not shooting at all.
When I shot in the league we had the only junior team, all of the others were adult teams. Most of their members were retired or getting ready to retire. When they quit shooting the clubs just ended. Most of these clubs were devoted purely to precision shooting.
I think the biggest hurdle facing ISSF style shooting right now is recruitment of new junior shooters, and then holding on to them for the long haul. There are so many sports out there it is getting hard to draw kids to ISSF. I don't think it is a money thing - skiing, snowboarding, hockey and football all cost a good bit of money to compete in. Another thing is that if you are good in most other sports there are tons of scholarships and schools to choose from. You are pretty limited in rifle and pistol, and not all schools can give shooting athletes much in the way of scholarships.
There are some major challenges in the future of ISSF shooting. The Olympics are probably the least of them.
When I shot in the league we had the only junior team, all of the others were adult teams. Most of their members were retired or getting ready to retire. When they quit shooting the clubs just ended. Most of these clubs were devoted purely to precision shooting.
I think the biggest hurdle facing ISSF style shooting right now is recruitment of new junior shooters, and then holding on to them for the long haul. There are so many sports out there it is getting hard to draw kids to ISSF. I don't think it is a money thing - skiing, snowboarding, hockey and football all cost a good bit of money to compete in. Another thing is that if you are good in most other sports there are tons of scholarships and schools to choose from. You are pretty limited in rifle and pistol, and not all schools can give shooting athletes much in the way of scholarships.
There are some major challenges in the future of ISSF shooting. The Olympics are probably the least of them.
Yes I did misunderstand your comment.
Yes finding and keeping juniors is a big challenge. I coach juniors so I'm really well aware of that problem. They have way too many choices and many don't have the patience, if it doesn't come easy on to the next thing.
The funny thing is that it's easier to actually find female juniors than male. I noticed this same thing at a few clubs in Germany and Austria too.
Right now we are in the process of trying to find new sources for junior shooters.
As for scholarships and school sports, shooting could actually use this to it's advantage. Lots of kids aren't the string, fastest or the school jocks, but shooting could give them an avenue to compete in.
Yes finding and keeping juniors is a big challenge. I coach juniors so I'm really well aware of that problem. They have way too many choices and many don't have the patience, if it doesn't come easy on to the next thing.
The funny thing is that it's easier to actually find female juniors than male. I noticed this same thing at a few clubs in Germany and Austria too.
Right now we are in the process of trying to find new sources for junior shooters.
As for scholarships and school sports, shooting could actually use this to it's advantage. Lots of kids aren't the string, fastest or the school jocks, but shooting could give them an avenue to compete in.
The junior team I shot on had a large number of girls on it. Seemed we had more guys come and try it, but we retained more of the girls. I think some of the guys didn't like getting their butts kicked by the girls!
I was in the lousy at other sports group. I enjoyed playing football and basketball, but never had a shot at making the team. Rifle just came naturally to me, was fun, and once the scores got to a certain point very challenging. There were some very good shooters (one girl went on to shoot in the Sydney Olympics) on the team so you were always getting pushed to improve.
I'm not sure how we make shooting as inviting a sports choice as soccer. Parents seem to like the team sports as they can go and cheer and yell and say to the guy next to them "Hey that was my kid!". Those German shoots you linked to are more along those lines, look like fun, and certainly have a large following. The electronic targets certainly help get the crowd involved, although I don't know how many US ranges would spring for the expense. Since it is somewhat like the league format we already shoot I think it could catch on.
I was in the lousy at other sports group. I enjoyed playing football and basketball, but never had a shot at making the team. Rifle just came naturally to me, was fun, and once the scores got to a certain point very challenging. There were some very good shooters (one girl went on to shoot in the Sydney Olympics) on the team so you were always getting pushed to improve.
I'm not sure how we make shooting as inviting a sports choice as soccer. Parents seem to like the team sports as they can go and cheer and yell and say to the guy next to them "Hey that was my kid!". Those German shoots you linked to are more along those lines, look like fun, and certainly have a large following. The electronic targets certainly help get the crowd involved, although I don't know how many US ranges would spring for the expense. Since it is somewhat like the league format we already shoot I think it could catch on.
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Freepistol
- Posts: 773
- Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:52 pm
- Location: Berwick, PA
[quote="AnthonyT"]. . . . . Where I currently live there is NO ISSF shooting even though there are tons of "gun clubs". They all shoot NRA, 3-Gun, IDPA, etc. . . . quote]
Hey Anthony,
You have a perfect opportunity to get some matches started. You have plenty of active clubs who could use your help running their matches. The guys who run the matches, more than likely, want to shoot, too, but may not be able to because they are running the whole thing. I know some of the disciplines run the "officials" through the course on Friday to solve that problem, however, they can always use a non-shoooting volunteer.
After helping them run their matches, ask if anyone would be interested in helping you run an ISSF match. The key to this is getting a good enough field of shooters to make it worth their time. They are used to huge turnouts and 7 participants won't look good for you.
I'm supposed to get together with a silhouette guy this summer to see if we can exchange range officer duties.
Ben
Hey Anthony,
You have a perfect opportunity to get some matches started. You have plenty of active clubs who could use your help running their matches. The guys who run the matches, more than likely, want to shoot, too, but may not be able to because they are running the whole thing. I know some of the disciplines run the "officials" through the course on Friday to solve that problem, however, they can always use a non-shoooting volunteer.
After helping them run their matches, ask if anyone would be interested in helping you run an ISSF match. The key to this is getting a good enough field of shooters to make it worth their time. They are used to huge turnouts and 7 participants won't look good for you.
I'm supposed to get together with a silhouette guy this summer to see if we can exchange range officer duties.
Ben
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Bob Fleming
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:25 pm
- Location: Hunt County, Texas
While I can think of many ways to improve the situation, there is nothing wrong with the current system. The system is not broken. None of us are entitled to a free ride simply because we can shoot. This is one of the differences between Freedom and Communism. Personally, I prefer Freedom and all the problems it causes.
All you need is to shoot the scores and pay your own way to shoot matches around the world and you will be accepted. Forget about putting a fat old man on a box of Wheaties, that won't sell the product. You will have to pay your way without any sponsors. Most sponsors do not care that much about shooting, they are simply looking for a venue to advertise their products that provide the most exposure for the least expense. It is a simple business concept. As long as shooting remains a participant sport, not a spectator sport, the status quo is likely to remain unchanged during our lifetime.
Therefore the question is not ”how do we change the system?” the question becomes “how do we change shooting to create a spectator sport?” I think most of us are not interested in most of the answers to that question.
All you need is to shoot the scores and pay your own way to shoot matches around the world and you will be accepted. Forget about putting a fat old man on a box of Wheaties, that won't sell the product. You will have to pay your way without any sponsors. Most sponsors do not care that much about shooting, they are simply looking for a venue to advertise their products that provide the most exposure for the least expense. It is a simple business concept. As long as shooting remains a participant sport, not a spectator sport, the status quo is likely to remain unchanged during our lifetime.
Therefore the question is not ”how do we change the system?” the question becomes “how do we change shooting to create a spectator sport?” I think most of us are not interested in most of the answers to that question.
And along this note, check out the post on AccurateShooter.com about the Landsskytterstevnet competitions run every year in Norway. Here's a link to some of the last few competitions:Richard H wrote:Maybe we need to look at why people don't like International style shooting.
Like I said check out some of the Bundesliga matches, they are on You-tube, It is International style shooting but just far more fun, lively and engaging and it has the modern man against man aspect to it.
http://www.arenatv.no/ls/player_LS_09/ls09.php
It's not exactly international style, but it's not 3-gun or IPSC either. Vebjørn Berg, one of the top ranked shooters on the WC circuit, regularly shoots this competition. Very cool.
Jason