Double Tap with the LP50e

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:48 pm

I have recently purchased a Steyr LP50e.

I have been using the 5 shot mags to shoot practice air pistol matches (yes I know I can't use the mags in competition matches - they just save me time).

Occasionally I will shoot one or two double taps in a match. The double taps can be in any pellet sequence ie the first 2, the last 2 or any combination in between.

I have a slow but steady squeeze and good follow through.

My query:

Is there an adjustment I can make or is it a case of sending it back for a warranty job?

psf32 · Post by **psf32** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:00 pm

I have sold two now that have done this I would send it back, also you can get trigger bounce with the styer trigger I often get double tap with my lp10e.

peter

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:38 am

I've never had that, not in my LP1, LP10 or 2 different LP5. I' d definitely go for a overhaul.

j-team · Post by **j-team** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:41 am

Tycho wrote:I've never had that, not in my LP1, LP10 or 2 different LP5. I' d definitely go for a overhaul.

None of those have electronic triggers. LP50e does.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:57 am

This sounds like the same effect that I get with the Morini 162E.

Because there is no rapid trigger movement when the shot breaks on an electronic trigger your finger will always be close to the "let-off" point. It is quite common to get a second click (or bounce).

This is not a problem on a single shot like a 162E or an LP10e, but it could be a problem on a multi-shot pistol unless they find a way to counter it.

joker · Post by **joker** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:29 am

Daystate electronic air rifles with electronic trigger have a 1/2 second delay after firing the trigger before a 2nd shot of the trigger can be actuated. This prevents double firing due to either bounce in the trigger micro switch or finger bounce.

j-team · Post by **j-team** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:18 pm

David Levene wrote:Because there is no rapid trigger movement when the shot breaks on an electronic trigger your finger will always be close to the "let-off" point. It is quite common to get a second click (or bounce).

This is not a problem on a single shot like a 162E or an LP10e, but it could be a problem on a multi-shot pistol unless they find a way to counter it.

This is exactly why I gave up on my Pardini SP1. I used to get doubles and it was most common in 150 second standard pistol series. It was due to the recoil inducing bounce on the microswitch.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:33 pm

Send it back. I asked for a LP50e short from local dealer. He did´t have any. He had just send all LP50es back to the factory, because the pistol double fires or skips a shot all the time.

TS

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:12 am

Oops, didn't see the "e"... Yeah, this could explain why I haven't received my LP50e by now, the factory is stalling...

Gwhite · Post by **Gwhite** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:17 am

I'm really surprised at this problem. I'm a circuit designer, and the problem is equivalent to "contact bounce". "De-bouncing" circuits have been around since at least the late 1960's to interface mechanical switches to digital electronics. It hasn't been a big issue in free pistols 'cause you only get one bang, although repeated firing of the solenoid will run the battery down.

I suspect they have a debouncing circuit, but they may have a manufacturing problem getting the timing right. The other possibility is component tolerances. The typical circuit uses a capacitor for the delay, and the tolerances on cheap capacitors tends to be VERY loose. I have a dim recollection of seeing at least one variable resistor on my Morini free pistol circuit, which could be used to adjust the timing.

I did a search online for pictures, and found photos of the Morini 162EI board:

http://www.morini.ch/cm162.htm

This is a newer design than in my FP, and there are no signs of any adjustable resistors. HOWEVER, there is a row of jumpers on the bottom that could be used to set the timing in fixed steps. I couldn't find any pictures of the Steyr trigger circuitry to see if there is any obvious means of timing adjustment.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:03 pm

Thanks for the feedback.

Pete

ps it would appear from the comments the double tap might be a "built in" feature Steyr and its customers would be happy to do without. A real pity as in all other respects it's the best performing air pistol I have had in 20 years of shooting (FWB C20, Steyr LP10 (mechanical) and Morini 162ei).

It may take time but I will report back on what happens as the gun works its way back through the system.

Koku · Post by **Koku** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:27 am

David Levene wrote:This sounds like the same effect that I get with the Morini 162E.

Because there is no rapid trigger movement when the shot breaks on an electronic trigger your finger will always be close to the "let-off" point. It is quite common to get a second click (or bounce).

This is not a problem on a single shot like a 162E or an LP10e, but it could be a problem on a multi-shot pistol unless they find a way to counter it.

I find the existence of the second click from a 162E is a sign that my trigger follow through is not up to par, i.e. releasing the trigger too soon, ignoring this sign can lead to a case of chicken finger.

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:55 am

Talked to a guy yesterday who already has his 50e, and apparently the trigger can or even has to be adjusted during a "break-in" phase. According to him, the pistol has worked flawlessly after the first 100 shots or so, with some tweaking.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:49 am

Koku wrote:I find the existence of the second click from a 162E is a sign that my trigger follow through is not up to par, i.e. releasing the trigger too soon, ignoring this sign can lead to a case of chicken finger.

It hasn't done in the first 9 years but it's early days.