Just purchased an Anschultz small bore barreled action serial #183488 without model # identified. Is this a 1913 or the older 1813 model? Any advice on how to id the model # would be appreciated.
Tom
Anschutz barreled action 1913 or 1813?
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
Re: M1813 or M1913
Usually this is marked on the barrel. Based on my experience, it is an early M1813, very close to the cut-off to the earlier M1613. Is there an "X" after the serial number?I would expect there will be a dovetail front sight sight mount.
The M1913 will have a different front sight mount with grooves cut into the barrel.
Alan Carey
The M1913 will have a different front sight mount with grooves cut into the barrel.
Alan Carey
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Guest
I agree with Alan, the serial number is too low to be a 1913. A friend has a 1987 1913, a very early model. SN is well past 200,000 (about 230,000 IIRC). If the rifle still have the original Anschutz barrel, an ID is much easier. All the 1613s I've seen have Modell Match 54 stamped on the barrel, and as Alan noted have an X suffix to the serial number;1813s (and 1811s) have 1813 Supermatch stamped on the barrel. 1913s (and 1911s) have 1913 Supermatch stamped on the barrel.
The 1613, 1813, and 1913 actions are very simillar. The 1613 has a different firing pin, but the trigger is mechanically the same as the 1813 and 1913, which are almost identical. The real difference is the foresight, 1613s and 1813s have a steel dovetail block screwed onto the barrel, where 1913s have dovetail grooves cut directly into the barrel (which is slightly larger in diameter at the muzzle). 1613 and 1813 foresights are interchangeable with each other but not with 1913s.
To date the barrel, look on the left hand side of the barrel, just ahead of the receiver. You may need a magnifying glass, or to remove the barrel from the stock. There will be two letters stamped into the barrel, tese are a code for the year the barrel was fitted to the action and proof-tested. IA is 1980, IB is '81, IC '82 and so forth. Obviously this won't work if the barrel has been replaced.
Tim S
Taunton
UK
The 1613, 1813, and 1913 actions are very simillar. The 1613 has a different firing pin, but the trigger is mechanically the same as the 1813 and 1913, which are almost identical. The real difference is the foresight, 1613s and 1813s have a steel dovetail block screwed onto the barrel, where 1913s have dovetail grooves cut directly into the barrel (which is slightly larger in diameter at the muzzle). 1613 and 1813 foresights are interchangeable with each other but not with 1913s.
To date the barrel, look on the left hand side of the barrel, just ahead of the receiver. You may need a magnifying glass, or to remove the barrel from the stock. There will be two letters stamped into the barrel, tese are a code for the year the barrel was fitted to the action and proof-tested. IA is 1980, IB is '81, IC '82 and so forth. Obviously this won't work if the barrel has been replaced.
Tim S
Taunton
UK
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tomschrader
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:08 pm
- Location: VIRGINIA
1913 or 1813?
Thanks Tim, Alan for info on differiating the actions.
My barrel was shortened and a Bloop tube added so there is no way to tell if it was dovetailed or parallel grooved for the original front sight. The barrel could be a replacement barrel as there are no fitting-date/proof test marks on it near the receiver. The barrel is thicker for the last 3 inches or so of its front end and there is a hole tapped 1 inch back from the muzzle probably for an earlier front sight mount.
The only other stamping on the barrel is a serial stamp on it's bottom 1/3 of the way down the barrel: "MTG 89448". Is this of any help?
The rear action does have grooves on its top for mounting the rear sights. Do these rear grooves differiante the model?
TNX,
Tom
My barrel was shortened and a Bloop tube added so there is no way to tell if it was dovetailed or parallel grooved for the original front sight. The barrel could be a replacement barrel as there are no fitting-date/proof test marks on it near the receiver. The barrel is thicker for the last 3 inches or so of its front end and there is a hole tapped 1 inch back from the muzzle probably for an earlier front sight mount.
The only other stamping on the barrel is a serial stamp on it's bottom 1/3 of the way down the barrel: "MTG 89448". Is this of any help?
The rear action does have grooves on its top for mounting the rear sights. Do these rear grooves differiante the model?
TNX,
Tom
Tom:
Does the underside of the bolt have an open slot underlying the firing pin? This is one way to tell the difference between a M1613 and M1813. The M1613 has an open slot on the underside of the bolt, while on the M1813 the bolt is solid.
The real difference between the 2 models at this point is the trigger. The triggers between the two models is slightly different but functionally the same as far as adjustments go.
The "MTG 89448" is the importer's stamp. The rifle was imported into the US by MT Guns. My guess is that it was likely imported from the UK or Germany.
Alan Carey
Does the underside of the bolt have an open slot underlying the firing pin? This is one way to tell the difference between a M1613 and M1813. The M1613 has an open slot on the underside of the bolt, while on the M1813 the bolt is solid.
The real difference between the 2 models at this point is the trigger. The triggers between the two models is slightly different but functionally the same as far as adjustments go.
The "MTG 89448" is the importer's stamp. The rifle was imported into the US by MT Guns. My guess is that it was likely imported from the UK or Germany.
Alan Carey
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Guest
I doubt it was imported from the UK. When a new barrel is fitted it must be proofed, either at Birmingham or London, and will be stamped to show this. If the barrel hadn't been proofed it could not legally have been sold to the deaer who exported it.
What ever the origins, it's not a 1913.
Tom, is the barrel blued or white (i.e. stainless)? If it's blued I suspect that it's the original barrel that has been removed from the action, shortened at the breech and re-chambered. This would be done as a cheaper alternative to fitting new barrel, if the old throat is heavily worn. If stainless then a previous owner wanted a short barrel, or shot out a replacement barrel.
As the barrel is drilled for a foresight block, this confirms that it's not a 1913, but an 1813 or 1613. As Alan stated, an X on the serial no. means a 1613, no X means an 1813. Both were excellent rifles. I currently shoot a '79 1613, and am waiting on a 1980 1613 with a Shilen barrel.
Tim S
Taunton UK
What ever the origins, it's not a 1913.
Tom, is the barrel blued or white (i.e. stainless)? If it's blued I suspect that it's the original barrel that has been removed from the action, shortened at the breech and re-chambered. This would be done as a cheaper alternative to fitting new barrel, if the old throat is heavily worn. If stainless then a previous owner wanted a short barrel, or shot out a replacement barrel.
As the barrel is drilled for a foresight block, this confirms that it's not a 1913, but an 1813 or 1613. As Alan stated, an X on the serial no. means a 1613, no X means an 1813. Both were excellent rifles. I currently shoot a '79 1613, and am waiting on a 1980 1613 with a Shilen barrel.
Tim S
Taunton UK
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tschrader
1913 or 1813?
Tim, Allan
Great info and detective support here! MT Guns sold me this rifle last week for my son. I confrimed with Mac of MT Guns that the barrel was shortened and re-chambered -- explaining the missing proof stamp.
The barrel is blue steel.
I started this model research because I was under the impression that I was getting an M1913 in a 1813 stock. I looks like I got the reverse.
My next investigation on this rifle is its front sight. It appears to be missing its intenal black metal "donut" aperture insert. All that I can see is two horizontal whiskers coming out from the sides of the sight frame with no donut circle in the center. Is this the norm for a small bore front sight? I was sent a set of clear plastic inserts for the sight. Once one of these is inserted will the donut I am searching for appear?
As you can surmise you have a high power hunter here who is totally clueless about match shooting small bore guns.
Tom
Great info and detective support here! MT Guns sold me this rifle last week for my son. I confrimed with Mac of MT Guns that the barrel was shortened and re-chambered -- explaining the missing proof stamp.
The barrel is blue steel.
I started this model research because I was under the impression that I was getting an M1913 in a 1813 stock. I looks like I got the reverse.
My next investigation on this rifle is its front sight. It appears to be missing its intenal black metal "donut" aperture insert. All that I can see is two horizontal whiskers coming out from the sides of the sight frame with no donut circle in the center. Is this the norm for a small bore front sight? I was sent a set of clear plastic inserts for the sight. Once one of these is inserted will the donut I am searching for appear?
As you can surmise you have a high power hunter here who is totally clueless about match shooting small bore guns.
Tom
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Guest
Tom,
There's not much difference between a 1913 in an 1813 stock, and an 1813 in a 1913 stock. 1913s continued to use an 1813 pattern stock for several years. The biggest difference is that a 1913 has a more complex butt plate and hook than an early production (i.e. 1980) 1813.
As for your foresight dilemma, yes the Perspex inserts will give the "donut". Perspex inserts have a chamfered edge to the aperture. This refracts light to create the black ring. Many shooters prefer Perspex elements to traditional metal ones, as Perspex elements give a clearer unobstructed view of the target (metal elements have a cross bar to support the donut).
At the moment your foresight tunnel simply doesn't have an insert in place. Unscrew the knurled ring at the back end of the tunnel. This is the element (another term for the insert) holder. Push one of your Perspex elements into the clamp (there should be a bevel at the edge to help) and screw in the clamp. If you decide you want traditional metal elements (and some shooters do, it's a matter of personal taste), these drop into a slot in the top of the tunnel.
The horizontal whiskers in your tunnel are there to give a horizontal reference point. Metal elements have cross bars, but perspex elements don't so whiskers are sometimes fitted. Why would I want these you ask? Well, it's important to hold the rifle at the same angle for every shot, tilting the rifle can change your zero. This is true whether you hold the rifle upright, or cant (deliberately tilt it towards your head). Some shooters fix a small spirit level to their foresight to do the same thing.
Tim S
Taunton UK
There's not much difference between a 1913 in an 1813 stock, and an 1813 in a 1913 stock. 1913s continued to use an 1813 pattern stock for several years. The biggest difference is that a 1913 has a more complex butt plate and hook than an early production (i.e. 1980) 1813.
As for your foresight dilemma, yes the Perspex inserts will give the "donut". Perspex inserts have a chamfered edge to the aperture. This refracts light to create the black ring. Many shooters prefer Perspex elements to traditional metal ones, as Perspex elements give a clearer unobstructed view of the target (metal elements have a cross bar to support the donut).
At the moment your foresight tunnel simply doesn't have an insert in place. Unscrew the knurled ring at the back end of the tunnel. This is the element (another term for the insert) holder. Push one of your Perspex elements into the clamp (there should be a bevel at the edge to help) and screw in the clamp. If you decide you want traditional metal elements (and some shooters do, it's a matter of personal taste), these drop into a slot in the top of the tunnel.
The horizontal whiskers in your tunnel are there to give a horizontal reference point. Metal elements have cross bars, but perspex elements don't so whiskers are sometimes fitted. Why would I want these you ask? Well, it's important to hold the rifle at the same angle for every shot, tilting the rifle can change your zero. This is true whether you hold the rifle upright, or cant (deliberately tilt it towards your head). Some shooters fix a small spirit level to their foresight to do the same thing.
Tim S
Taunton UK
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tchrader
1913 or 1813?
Tim, Following your guidance I inserted a Perspex insert and got a great front sight picture. The stock appears to be a 1913 as it has a complex buttplate with hook.
Cleaned up the stock and barreled action yesterday and plan a couple of coats of tung oil for the stock today/tomorrow to cover the scratches.
If you have any insights on the trigger assembly and its possible adjustments I would appreciate them. I don't plan to clean it or lube it at this time -- too dangerous. Too many springs, pins and levers for my rough hands.
Your guidance has been appeciated. I am a retired USN officer who servered in the West Pacific in the 1970s--1980s. In 1972/73, as Gunnery Officer, I rendered full honors (21 gun salute) from the USS OKLAHOMA CITY CLG-5, the US 7th Fleet's flag ship, to your new Governor General of Hong Kong at HMS TAMAR, Victoria Island HK. You Brits do live in style afloat and overseas.
R, Tom Schrader
Cleaned up the stock and barreled action yesterday and plan a couple of coats of tung oil for the stock today/tomorrow to cover the scratches.
If you have any insights on the trigger assembly and its possible adjustments I would appreciate them. I don't plan to clean it or lube it at this time -- too dangerous. Too many springs, pins and levers for my rough hands.
Your guidance has been appeciated. I am a retired USN officer who servered in the West Pacific in the 1970s--1980s. In 1972/73, as Gunnery Officer, I rendered full honors (21 gun salute) from the USS OKLAHOMA CITY CLG-5, the US 7th Fleet's flag ship, to your new Governor General of Hong Kong at HMS TAMAR, Victoria Island HK. You Brits do live in style afloat and overseas.
R, Tom Schrader
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smckenna03
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:27 pm
- Location: Colorado Springs
- Contact:
I just took note of the serial number, and it's not a million miles away from my 1813 supermatch (serial no. 1853nn). Mine very clearly says all that on the barrel. NB/ Don't forget the buttplate and hook etc can all easily be changed between models. I have the current buttplate on mine.ADC59 wrote:Tom:
A little reasearch on Anschutz website provides the final answer on this question. The first Anschutz M1813/M1807 was SN# 182,156. So yours is a very early M1813, probably manufactured in 1979 or 1980.
Alan Carey
Rob.