If one had to choose between a Sig P240 in 38WC and a P210-5 heavyframe, 9mm, which would be the better performer on both 25 and longline ?
I am not too sure about 9x19 potential, however it seems that the P210-5 in this caliber has very a credible track record out to 50 meters; At least this is what the test target says. I have a few friends from Switzerland who would not touch any other handgun and vouch by its performance; Whenever I bring up the notion the the 38 special WC is a better target round, I almost always get told that this is because I have not used a 210, ( or especially the -5 model).
A 9mm for both ISSF center fire and midrange would do me fine.
I am no champion, but take target shooting with some determination and would hate to use a caliber that hamstrings my efforts.
Sig P240 vs P210-5
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, Isabel1130
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schatzperson
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:04 am
- Location: Malta Europe
The 210 has a good track record for long range. I forget the specific match name abbreviation, but there is a European military pistol match in which the 210 is a clear favorite. The 240 is very nice, but if the choice is based on the cartridge, I'd sooner go for a 1911 in 38 WC such as a Clark or Giles.
You might want to post on the Olympic Pistol forum as more European shooters would probably weight in. There was a recent thread comparing the 240 with other 38 WC options. You may wish to do a search...
As far as 9x19 is concerned, a big problem is the huge variation in tolerances and measurements. The cartridge exists in the metric and imperial world. Assuming you would be reloading, you'd want to consider every variable from the obvious (bullet and brass choice) to the less obvious (make and dimensions of dies). I would definitely slug the barrel and make a chamber cast.
Best regards,
Jim
You might want to post on the Olympic Pistol forum as more European shooters would probably weight in. There was a recent thread comparing the 240 with other 38 WC options. You may wish to do a search...
As far as 9x19 is concerned, a big problem is the huge variation in tolerances and measurements. The cartridge exists in the metric and imperial world. Assuming you would be reloading, you'd want to consider every variable from the obvious (bullet and brass choice) to the less obvious (make and dimensions of dies). I would definitely slug the barrel and make a chamber cast.
Best regards,
Jim
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Guest
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schatzperson
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:04 am
- Location: Malta Europe
Sig P240 vs P210-5
Well, I have done a bit of shooting with 9x19 and was never too impressed. I have tried everything starting with sorting out brass ( headstamp and OA length) and even weighing each powder charge.
2 years ago I bought a Sphinx 3000, Standard model in 9mm and most of my trials were done with this pistol.
Dont know what to say...I mean here is little ole me from the backwaters saying I am not satisfied with my 3000 Euro + (4300 USD) pistol.
Results with the Sphinx are not bad, but I had the distinct impression that I was struggling to reach my own best potential and the pistol was holding my progress back.
A while ago I tried out an old, S&W M14 and using WC I immediately felt confident. I could call most of my shots by the same amount when using 10M airpistol.
Went out and bought the cheapest 22 I could find : A little used High Standard Citation ( turned out to be number 3 in production series);
I was back to scoring high 80's average with little effort.
Sorry to drag on a bit with my tale of misguided efforts, but I came away not impressed by neither my high dollar pistol ( its for sale) nor the 9x19 in general.
I understand that the Swiss in particular, with their P210 do great things in their service pistol matches, but how on earth do I duplicate their superconsistent ammo ?
On the other hand, Mr average reloader with his lee stuff throws 38 Wc that allow me to achieve my best using a beat-up S&W!
Besides as Guest says.....there is that awfull supersonic crack.
This time I am not rushing in choosing a CF replacment for my Ferrari poser pistol.
I am looking at a very nice used P240 in 38 for 590 Euro, but for the moment I will just ask questions and shoot my HS and AP.
2 years ago I bought a Sphinx 3000, Standard model in 9mm and most of my trials were done with this pistol.
Dont know what to say...I mean here is little ole me from the backwaters saying I am not satisfied with my 3000 Euro + (4300 USD) pistol.
Results with the Sphinx are not bad, but I had the distinct impression that I was struggling to reach my own best potential and the pistol was holding my progress back.
A while ago I tried out an old, S&W M14 and using WC I immediately felt confident. I could call most of my shots by the same amount when using 10M airpistol.
Went out and bought the cheapest 22 I could find : A little used High Standard Citation ( turned out to be number 3 in production series);
I was back to scoring high 80's average with little effort.
Sorry to drag on a bit with my tale of misguided efforts, but I came away not impressed by neither my high dollar pistol ( its for sale) nor the 9x19 in general.
I understand that the Swiss in particular, with their P210 do great things in their service pistol matches, but how on earth do I duplicate their superconsistent ammo ?
On the other hand, Mr average reloader with his lee stuff throws 38 Wc that allow me to achieve my best using a beat-up S&W!
Besides as Guest says.....there is that awfull supersonic crack.
This time I am not rushing in choosing a CF replacment for my Ferrari poser pistol.
I am looking at a very nice used P240 in 38 for 590 Euro, but for the moment I will just ask questions and shoot my HS and AP.
Isn't the Sphinx more of a IPSC combat type competition pistol? I know it is a nice pistol but that may have a bit more to do with your unfavorable impression. The 9x19 noise is, however, a real consideration. I have gotten some sour looks from other competitors for using my "big blaster" 38 wadcutter 1911s. (2.7 gr of bullseye and a 148 gr HBWC!!) Everyone else was using 32. The S&W 14 is an excellent choice! Maybe you should use that?
Are there any other 38 WC semi auto pistols available where you are? How about the Peter Stahls from Germany?
Cheers!
Jim
Are there any other 38 WC semi auto pistols available where you are? How about the Peter Stahls from Germany?
Cheers!
Jim
p240 38wc
I have 2 sig240s and from a sandbag with H&N 125gr wadcutters with 2.7gr of Bullseye they will both shoot under 1.65" at 50 yards. I typically ask the best shooter at the club to function as my Ransom Rest. 2.8gr shoots a little worse in both of my guns. At 3.0 grains the groups open up to 3". THe only problem is that if you are shooting outdoors in cooler temperatures the 2.7gr load does not always cycle reliably with the 125gr bullet. It will cylcle at that load with 148gr Speer or Hornady hbwcs.
I have shot both pistols, having owned a P240 (three barrel) some time ago and now I have a P210-5LS and P210-6.
The 240 was ok for 25m but to push it to 50yds be warned, do not use hot loads and HBWC. Most P240 barrels have been buldged this way.
In Aus the P240 was used for unrestricted service pistol (no power factor), most P240 were blown up in service pistol (120,000 power factor). If you go for the P240 then load cast WC and size .356.
The P210-5LS has a beavertail, no bite, and both a screw or glue on tail is available for the older models. The 9mm is giving me about 3" group at 50 yds with lead 115g SWC and sub 2" with 115g FMJ.
With proper set up of dies and powder thrower the 9mm is easy to load well. The 210 likes to go fairly fast 1050-1180 fps.
It is a very nice pistol to shoot.
Also P210 parts are still around, P240 parts well........?
The 240 was ok for 25m but to push it to 50yds be warned, do not use hot loads and HBWC. Most P240 barrels have been buldged this way.
In Aus the P240 was used for unrestricted service pistol (no power factor), most P240 were blown up in service pistol (120,000 power factor). If you go for the P240 then load cast WC and size .356.
The P210-5LS has a beavertail, no bite, and both a screw or glue on tail is available for the older models. The 9mm is giving me about 3" group at 50 yds with lead 115g SWC and sub 2" with 115g FMJ.
With proper set up of dies and powder thrower the 9mm is easy to load well. The 210 likes to go fairly fast 1050-1180 fps.
It is a very nice pistol to shoot.
Also P210 parts are still around, P240 parts well........?
210 vs 240
I have the 210-5 and hammer bites all the time. I try tape, helps. 240 cycles slower and is more muzzle heavy. 210 lacks muzzle heavieness for slow fire benefit. Parts, yes @ Numrich. 240 parts may be hard to locate. 249 factory grips fit my hand better tahn factory grips on my 210. I agree on consistancy issue on loading for 210. My 952SW eats anything the 210 won't chamber! 240 very polite on dropping empties on my feet.
210 bite
If your P210 bites, take a look here.
http://www.nill-grips.com/Tuning-Parts_121.html
for glue on and screw on beavertails.
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http://www.nill-grips.com/Tuning-Parts_121.html
for glue on and screw on beavertails.
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Guest
For 240 parts try Roger Geissbühler at www.schiesssport.ch, or Werner Kessler at www.kesslerauktionen.ch. Most parts are available, from when they cleaned out the old Hammerli factory. And, any 210 will shoot 2" with the right ammo, my -6 HF does that all day long on Swiss Army Hardball .30 Luger.