Can dry fire ruin my trigger?

[Tallahassee]

I am somewhat pissed at my plateau. I have been fluctuating in 530's for quite some time. Spending one hour on the range every other day doesn't seem to improve my score at all. Occasionally in the 540's, but mostly in 530's.

I want to keep myself from live fire for a month. I want to do nothing but dry fire and holding exercise for one month.

How much dry fire can I do to my LP10 without damaging the trigger?

If I click my trigger dry fire 200 times a day for a month, would that hasten the demise of my trigger?

If it breaks down from dry fire, what part of trigger is most likely to break down? How likely is it to break down? Is it something I can fix myself?

[sworsky]

Sure it will hasten the demise of your trigger.

Most avid shooter shoots one can 500 pellets per week. If you dry fire 200 times a day, you are putting three times as much mileage as a regular avid shooter.

Yes, I think your trigger will die, or last, 1/3 as long.

[Tallahassee]

Any proof to your claim?

[Oz]

I've never heard of a worn out trigger. Sure the extra dry-fire will wear it out sooner... but let's put it in perspective. Say the trigger is good for a million clicks. 600 clicks per week vs 1000 clicks per week = 1667 weeks of clicks vs 1000 week of clicks in the life of the trigger. That's 19 years vs 32 years of non-stop use. Does it really matter if your trigger wears out in 19 or 32 years of _non-stop_ trigger pulls?

Oz

[2650 Plus]

If yuour scores have platoed as you have indicated , Please let me sugest that you are simply repeating the same mistakes over and over. The only soletion I can sugest is to analize the process you are using and identify more effecient ways to execute the shot sequence. Pratise to improve one of the elements of the shot delivery techniques until it is improved then move on to another and practise that until it also improves . Continue to progress until you see a solid improvement in each aspect of the shot delivery process and you will surely advance beyond your present level of performance. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[Isabel1130]

A drill that seems to benefit me, is that I now usually dry fire against a blank wall between every live shot. During the dry fire I am watching the sights and only the sights and I get my mind set on pulling the trigger smoothly while the sights are aligned. I then pick up the gun while the dry fire is fresh in my mind and attempt to duplicate the same hold and trigger pull only this time with my sub six hold and the bull above it on the target. Once I am warmed up I rarely have a shot anymore that is worse than a 9 and am shooting substantially more tens. I would not worry too much about wearing out the trigger. If you do, buy another one. A small price to pay for getting your average up. Isabel

[Tallahassee]

Let say I click up a whazoo, and the trigger died.

Can trigger be replaced? What parts are most likely to be replaced? Steyr would provide such a service?

[Oz]

Can trigger be replaced? What parts are most likely to be replaced? Steyr would provide such a service?

Yes. Trigger replacements are fairly simple. When ordering an LP10 from Pilkington, you need to specify if you want the 500gm AP trigger or the heavier trigger for rapid fire training (far more common in the LP5/50 of course). It's quite modular.

Oz

[PETE S]

I am sometimes surprised that many shooters seem to think that the only training one can do is Dry fire, involving squeezing off the trigger time and time again. There are many "at home" or away from the range training techniques with your LP-10 that would be very worth your time. These will not wear the trigger at all.

Consider what Bill Horton suggested about analyzing your training and technique. Read some of Steve Swartz contributions.

There are several air pistol gunsmiths around the US that can repair any worn parts including our host, and they can turn the pistol around in a reasonable time.

[David Levene]

Trigger replacements are fairly simple. When ordering an LP10 from Pilkington, you need to specify if you want the 500gm AP trigger or the heavier trigger for rapid fire training (far more common in the LP5/50 of course). It's quite modular.

Are you sure about that? As far as I am aware the LP10 uses a totally different trigger mechanism to the LP50.

I thought that the trigger on the LP10 was an integral part of the frame whereas the one one the LP50 is replaceable as a module.

[JamesH]

There's no need to dry fire, you're better off dry firing once and then over-pressuring against the trigger stop for the rest of your 200 'dry-fires'.

Apart from learning when the trigger breaks so you can time your flinch perfectly I'm not sure what dry-firing teaches you.

[David Levene]

........you're better off dry firing once and then over-pressuring against the trigger stop for the rest of your 200 'dry-fires'.

Whilst I'm no great lover of dry diring, I really can't see the point in this James.

I couldn't care less about what happens at anything over the trigger pressure required to fire the gun.

It would be as useful as testing a 25m pistol/ammunition combination to see how well it groups at 50m; totally irrelevant information.

[JamesH]

Well I think its useful, more so than dry firing.

I don't see any value in repeatedly applying 501g to a 500g trigger to hear it go click.

Good trigger control for me is about going smoothly though the release point without any hesitation and continuing to ramp up or at least hold the pressure afterwards.
What happens after the release is important and also what happens after you believe its gone off.
If you're used to applying exactly 501g then when you go to a match, the weather changes or for whatever reason your perception changes then you're going to be in trouble.

Applying excess force provides more exercise for the trigger finger, strength is useful, a 500g trigger probably provides next to nothing.

[Tallahassee]

James, so should I have some after travel on my trigger to practice this continuous pressure after trigger dry fire?

Or should I set my trigger 2nd stage after travel short, and apply continuous pressure to this short after travel?

How do I practice click and after click properly?

[David Levene]

I don't see any value in repeatedly applying 501g to a 500g trigger to hear it go click.

Good trigger control for me is about going smoothly though the release point without any hesitation and continuing to ramp up or at least hold the pressure afterwards.
What happens after the release is important and also what happens after you believe its gone off.

Good trigger control is not just about making it go click; it is about making it go click without disturbing the sight alignment. How you get to that point, and what happens after it, are largely irrelevant.

[Oz]

Trigger replacements are fairly simple. When ordering an LP10 from Pilkington, you need to specify if you want the 500gm AP trigger or the heavier trigger for rapid fire training (far more common in the LP5/50 of course). It's quite modular.

Are you sure about that? As far as I am aware the LP10 uses a totally different trigger mechanism to the LP50.

I thought that the trigger on the LP10 was an integral part of the frame whereas the one one the LP50 is replaceable as a module.

Oh boy! I've been a minister of dis-information! It IS only the LP5/50 which has the trigger swap!

An LP10 trigger can have worn parts replaced, but it is _not_ a modular trigger. Sorry for incorrect info and David, thanks for bringing that up!

Oz

[Chris]

I asked this same question once to a very respected shooter and the response I got was "You cannot dry fire enough"

Provided you have a good training plan and are setting goals to accomplish in your training sessions you should dry fire as much as you can. I would make it click so you get some feed back of an event. If you wear out your trigger then you should be good enough to exceed your goals. I think you should be able to reach your goals and your trigger will out last you.

Keep it simple and do not over think it....just train.

C

[JamesH]

Good trigger control is not just about making it go click; it is about making it go click without disturbing the sight alignment. How you get to that point, and what happens after it, are largely irrelevant.

Very much so.

However, actually making it 'go click' during training is counterproductive in my opinion, for the reasons already mentioned.
Its too easy to train in a memory of the exact pressure required to do so, then when conditions change - from home to range - you start all over again.
Then when the psychological pressure rises and your muscles and perception change you're all over the place again.

In my experience the people who raise and lower their arm ten times to get one shot off during a match are the obsessive dry firers, because they are trying to apply 501g to the trigger but in fact they are applying 499g -> the damn thing won't go off like it did so beautifully at home.
Or they're the ones who put one in the white as they're lowering the pistol, thinking they'll apply 498g and the last 2g when they're ready.

Dry firing can be useful during live fire, if you load a random number of rounds.

But then I'm not a great shot and its just opinion.

[JamesH]

James, so should I have some after travel on my trigger to practice this continuous pressure after trigger dry fire?

Or should I set my trigger 2nd stage after travel short, and apply continuous pressure to this short after travel?

How do I practice click and after click properly?

What I would say you want is for the trigger to stop roughly at the point it would normally release. Then practise applying some excess pressure to it at that point, not grossly excessive but a little more than you would normally apply to release the shot.

If your after travel is short enough you can leave it where it is, or put in something like a thin piece of rubber to work against.

As David said, releasing the shot with the normal trigger without disturbing anything is what matters in the end.
How you react when the sear goes and the trigger characteristic changes (depending on the gun) is important too. For me thats what live training without knowing how many rounds are loaded is for, or maybe a very limited amount of dry firing interspersed with pressuring.
(With an AP you can get your neighbour to switch it from F to S at random, or not load a pellet)

Bear in mind this could be wrong, or not work for you.
I'd suggest trying it and if it doesn't help discard it.

[lastman]

Anyone who think what happens after the shot is irrelevant is ignoring one of the greatest indicators of your performace.

Assess your grip after the shot breaks so you know if changed whilst you were pressing the trigger. Watch the sights after the break so you can see where they were aligned when the shot broke. Continue pressing the trigger so that you are focussed on continuous pressure all the way though to the release point.

Individually you may not need to do this but it is irresponsible giving advice to the contrary to newer shooters.

As for dry firing I would do about 500 dry shots on my LP 10 per week for theast few years and have not had an issue.

As for not clicking the trigger it is just as important as practicing your holding and sighting and should be done just as much as dry fire.