IZH35M, Doubles and Slam-fires

[diopter]

If anyone is still suffering slam-fires or doubles with their IZH35M, here’s something to try after making sure your sear is set up properly.

I used a .062”/1.6mm rubber plumbing O ring as a buffer and spacer between the Slide and the barrel muzzle block. Hardest part is sliding the O ring over the block.

My has been very reliable since doing this, with Lapua Club and RWS Club. Avoid this problem in the first place by not dry firing without a plug or a fired case in your chamber.

[mjmarz]

Is the firing pin free to float in it's chamber. If it is dirty, it will result in the pin sticking and then resulting in double firing or slam fires. Remember there is no firing pin spring, therefore it has to be clean in there.

[Fred]

Maybe I'm not understanding what you have done, so please correct me if I'm wrong. However, it sounds like you are using a thin piece of rubber, which was not engineered to withstand multiple impacts, to increase the headspace on your gun, in order to prevent slam fires and doubles. Given the dangers of doubles and especially slam fires, this sounds to me like a questionable fix. Wouldn't a proper gunsmithing solution - such as EAA did on many of these guns - be preferable?

FWIW,
FredB

[diopter]

Fred
Some problems with that.

1) I’m not in the states
2) Pistol was not imported by EAA.
3) Cross border shipping of firearms(Restricted Category in Canada) is frown upon on boths ends.
4) Importer I purchased from no longer exists.
5) New Canadian Baikal importer doesn’t answer me because they don’t handle the IZH35.
6) Can’t get a definitive answer as to what EAA Gunsmith(s) did to resolve problem. Ream out the chamber? Unscrew the barrel one full turn? Ream out the bolt face?. How? With a 7-8 inches long .270”-.300”reamer due to the length of the slide? I have hand filed the bolt face myself a few times to increase the depth of the cartridge base recess with limited success.
7) Not willing to trust local Gunsmith(s) until I find out the answer to #6. I don’t want it to be butchered as someone else’s learning experience. : )

In the meantime I’m using my Pardini.
The O ring allows the IZH pistol to be used now and then with a much greater degree of safety than without it.

[pgfaini]

If the chamber depth is not correct, why not purchase a target grade chambering reamer and "T" handle, and using a liberal amount of cutting oil, just deepen the chamber, which will include the rim recess, a little at a time until the problem is solved. You can get the reamer at Brownell's here in the States, it's not a restricted item as far as shipping is concerned. This would have been preferable to filing the bolt face.

Paul

[Fred]

Diopter,

Thanks for the full explanation. I can see that your #6 is the crucial problem, and I think I have seen the answer somewhere here on Target Talk, but I can't point to it. What I remember is one or more postings describing exactly what EAA did to correct this problem. It's also possible that the postings I remember were on the Bullseye List, so a search/inquiry of both might be useful. HTH.


Paul,

Again, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe a .22LR chamber reamer will not ream the rim recess and will thus not affect head space (unless the gun was originally very short chambered). This problem with the IZH has been almost always a head space problem, and not one of chamber depth.

FredB

[pgfaini]

Fred,
I'm a retired gunsmith. While dealing mostly in antique single shot target rifles, A significant part of my business included relining the barrels of old classic .22 rifles, so I've done a lot of .22 RF chambering. Believe me, ALL chambering reamers, other than the special throating reamers such as used for breach seating Schuetzen rifles, include rims (on rimmed cartridges), and belts on belted cartridges (.300 H&H). The rimfires are no exception. For firearms where the rims aren't recessed, such as in some revolvers, the reamer is just stopped short of cutting the recess.

While most chambering is properly done on a lathe, it can be done by hand, especially the .22rf., there being so little material removed.

The part that the reamer WON'T remove, is the extractor recess(s), but the fact that the factory short chambered the barrel, doesn't mean that the extractor cuts weren't done properly, as it's a different operation, and if the bolt contacts the breach face, the extractors are probably fitting their recesses.

Paul

[JamesH]

but the fact that the factory short chambered the barrel, doesn't mean that the extractor cuts weren't done properly

Useful advice but it doesn't yet sound like short chambering is a proven fact here.

Cutting a rim recess, and deepening the chamber in the process, may solve slamfires but screw up your extraction. Maybe.

Alternatively the recess in the bolt could be deepened to normal spec, whatever normal is, measure your Pardini.

Otherwise check the firing pin is not binding in the slide.

As the front block is pinned on I would be a bit reluctanct to use it to buffer the slide against, although the Izh35 slide is light and fast moving so does seem to smack itself against a small area on the breechface pretty hard.

[Fred Mannis]

I seem to recall (from earlier postings) that the problem was that the bolt metal was too soft and the bolt face peened over into the recess. The solution was to carefully open up the recess in the bolt face. Deepening the bolt face recess may also have been involved. I have an early Nygord import 95xxxx and have not yet had this problem, but I remember Don commenting on the metallurgy and citing it as a reason for not carrying it.

[pgfaini]

True, James, But if you read my first post, you'll see I opened with "If the chamber depth is not correct...."
He seemed to be correcting headspace by filing the breech face and using an O-ring as a shim.

I just disassembled my IZH35 Ser.#9504XX (Hadn't really examined it closely, since designing a slide hold open for it several years ago, for Don Nygord). I don't know if there were any design changes since my gun was made, so I'll describe its breach setup.

My gun has just the hint of a rim recess in the barrel, with the cartridge rim being contained by the slide recess at battery. There is no evidence of the firing pin hitting the chamber edge from dry firing, as the design of the firing pin causes its flat portion to contact the face of the barrel above the chamber.

IF THE SLIDE RECESS IS CORRECT, the generous relief in the barrel and frame for the extractor, would lead me to believe deepening of the chamber (and rim recess), TO DESIGN SPECS. wouldn't cause any extraction problem. If the slide recess is too shallow, the headspace could still be corrected, by deepening the chamber, and filing the extractor, if necessary, to hook over the case rim.

Paul

[dam8]

Paul would you be willing to be on retainer as an IZH repair man for board members? I haven't had any problems with my IZH either, but when the time comes I don't want some one using mine as a practice model :-)

[pgfaini]

Fred, You posted while I was composing mine. Had I read it I wouldn't have bothered with my long discourse! :>).
A soft bolt could of course, cause the slam firing condition, and the recess would have to be deburred. This would then become a chronic condition, eased by either deepening the chamber, or the recess.

Funny, Don never mentioned it while we were discussing the slide hold open. I too, got my gun from him, but haven't put that many rounds through it, preferring my Benelli.

dam8 (Nice handle, I hate them too!) I'm retired, and no longer have an FFL. Besides, our host is probably the best qualified to work on these special firearms.

Paul

[diopter]

Yes. Soft material, peening and the hammer slaming the boft against the chamber block without a round in the chamber(dryfiring), was my problem.

Here are some pictures of the the O ring setup.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/ ... 0257-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/ ... 0258-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/ ... 010259.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/ ... 010260.jpg


Now to find a local gunsmith with a match 22 chamber reamer

[Guest]

Can anybody direct me as to how one removes the extractor from the slide on the IZH 35m?

Thank you.

[paulo]

Coincidence, the extractor on my IZZY broke today.
Been trying to understand the mechanism to disassemble it, this is what I found so far.
It seems the end of the plunger that contacts the extractor is tapered, and I am guessing I need to recede it and twist the longer part of the tapper towards the center of the slider to make room for the back of the extractor to be removed by the opposite side, if you look closely there is some extra room on the outside of the extractor grove.
Which tools would you recommend, my tweezers and small screw drivers are too big for the job.
I can see the plunger and spring fly off into the twilight zone as well, if I am able to release the extractor, I am guessing I will be working inside a plastic bag just to avoid surprises. Putting it all back together without damaging the spring sounds like fun too.
Thanks for the help.

[diopter]

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/0703/ ... 0089-1.jpg

I use a cheap, soft metal "jewelers" flat tip screwdiver between the plunger and extractor, force punger into recess, hold it with screwdirver, lift out extractor, and ease out punger and spring in a safe are that easy to find all the parts when they come flying out.

[paulo]

Is removing the extractor something you do every time you clean your gun?
At the time the extractor broke, my gun was dirty, so I am wondering if the brake was due to metal fatigue or accumulated dirt that made it move differently and somehow got in the way of something harder that made it brake.
Just trying to avoid a repeat of this experience, since I finally seem to have learned this gun, and would like to have it last.

[gfrad]

I had gunsmith counter bore barrel ,the broblem was heas space ,problem solved shoots all ammunition now no slam bams