AP or FP ???

coker · Post by **coker** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:13 pm

Hi all.
Most shooters shoot both, so to have a better chance to win on any of those, since they are similar.
but,
do top shooters focus on only one discipline and shoot the other one just in case?? I believe it would be imposible to spend the exact same ammount of time training on both, say 50/50 , at least for me it is.
what are the chances to win on both? I like to have both guns and to shoot both pistols, for fun and to make the trip to the match worth it. , but I wonder if at Olympic level, it is advisable to concentrate only on the stronger one. cheers, c.

paw080 · Post by **paw080** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:21 pm

Hi coker, Have you watched any of the World Cup finals on ISSF.tv ? Please
do so, and your questions will be answered, with much enjoyment,I hope.

Tony G

coker · Post by **coker** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:26 pm

Hi Tony,
yes, but other than magnificient shooters, that doesnt tell me if they are shooting their strongest discipline. only they know.
what do you think??

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:55 pm

Here is what I think Coker. If you can shoot slow fire you can shoot free, or AP. If you can't shoot slow fire you won't shoot either well. Free is more difficult and the scores reflect that. However you should be able to set up an AP and a free pistol to feel very similar to each other. I watched an unclassified master win a free pistol competition in Arizona although I think he was later disqualified for wearing the wrong shoes. I would do both until I found out that I was much better at one than the other and would hope that the two disciplines would build on each other. I would not try to do both in the same day. You will exhaust yourself. Shooting 60 shoots slow fire is exhausting under the best of conditions. I would not try 120, too easy to lose focus. Whever event you shoot 2nd would probably suffer. Isabel.

Brian James · Post by **Brian James** » Wed May 13, 2009 7:15 am

You're right many top shooters appear to focus in similar events like Air pistol and free pistol.

I would say with the exception of Rapid Fire, elite shooters can often cross over into other events and be quite successful. This is due to their mental ability and strong technical shooting skills. RF shooters, can likely cross over to other events, but you don’t seem many FP shooters doing RF.

I would not worry so much on how you divide your time between AP/FP, but to ensure what ever discipline you shoot that you are technically sound and are developing a good mental game.

FP is a punishing event mentally, especially for novice shooters. Its hard to determine your mistakes. This can challenge ones development. Sadly I have seen to many shooter start shooting with a FP, and quickly walk away because its to hard to develop.

AP seems well suited to allow people time to develop good technical skills.

Brian

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Wed May 13, 2009 7:48 am

Brian James wrote:You're right many top shooters appear to focus in similar events like Air pistol and free pistol.

I would say with the exception of Rapid Fire, elite shooters can often cross over into other events and be quite successful. This is due to their mental ability and strong technical shooting skills. RF shooters, can likely cross over to other events, but you don’t seem many FP shooters doing RF.
<snip>
Brian

With the exception of some of the Russian shooters. Nestruev is now doing RF, AP and FP - see the results from the recent comp in Pilzen for example.

Rob.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Wed May 13, 2009 8:38 am

RobStubbs wrote:With the exception of some of the Russian shooters. Nestruev is now doing RF, AP and FP - see the results from the recent comp in Pilzen for example.

....where he also won Standard Pistol with 578 and Centre-Fire with 590.

This is following a line of Russian / USSR shooters who have excelled at many events. Afanasi Kusmins and Sergei Pyzhianov are just 2 further examples of superb all-round pistol shooting.

Brian James · Post by **Brian James** » Wed May 13, 2009 11:06 am

I agree the Russian shooters perform well in most events. But is this because they train all events? Or in reality train for 1-2 events and as a result are cross trainning for other events.

Brian

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:47 pm

Brian James wrote:I agree the Russian shooters perform well in most events. But is this because they train all events? Or in reality train for 1-2 events and as a result are cross trainning for other events.

Brian

I really don't believe you can properly train all events - if so why is it so rare ? Some may cross train others as a 'break' from their main events, I don't know. Also I don't know if for example most other nations shooters wouldn't be allowed to shoot in so many events - i.e. their coaches would forbid it (??)

Rob.

paw080 · Post by **paw080** » Wed May 13, 2009 7:41 pm

coker wrote:Hi Tony,
yes, but other than magnificient shooters, that doesnt tell me if they are shooting their strongest discipline. only they know.
what do you think??

coker, You asked what "Top Shooters" do. Well the top shooters at World Cups
shoot in both events; sometimes they qualify for finals, sometimes they don't.

Yes, some of the "Top Shooters" even admit that they are stronger in one event,
more than the other event. They still shoot both 50 meter and air at the
matches.
Tony G

muffo as guest · Post by **muffo as guest** » Thu May 14, 2009 5:37 am

If you can shoot air you can shoot free. Im far from a top shooter yet but from what i can see it is a lot easier to tell what you are doing wrong and to improve on things in air. I have been shooting for 15 months and for 12 i shot nothing but air and when i started free i found it hardly any different to air. I still dont do any training for free but as my air scores go up so do my free scores

coker · Post by **coker** » Thu May 14, 2009 11:14 am

Hi again,
I think what I meant is that for recreational purposes, if you are a slow fire shooter, you can shoot both air and free, which is what I did for years.and if you have the time, resources and access you can shoot anything else, including rifle and shotgun.
I want to win a gold medal, air pistol is more practical, cheap and more trainable, offcourse, if you are that good in air pistol, why not shot free from time to time and who knows, maybe you can even win.
but,
my though process, is why bother on a second gun, match ammo, scopes, and brain time, when you can only seriously focus on only one discipline.
I m seriously , leaning on shooting only air pistol with a gold medal in mind, and if time permits, shoot for fun only any of the rest: free, standard, rapid ( all of them with a browning 22)

am I making sense of myself??

c.

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Thu May 14, 2009 12:22 pm

Coker, In my opinion slow fire is slow fire. Both require excellent hold, focus, and great trigger control. IMHO if winning a gold medal is your goal, free pistol is the way to go. Why? because way more people can afford to shoot AP than FP and consequently become very good at it, which increases your competition and reduces your individual chances of winning. When you add in the fact that there are many countires in this world where an Air Pistol is the only gun you can acquire due to their stringent firearms laws, it is my belief it would be well worth the investment to get a FP and equipment. A gun is not an expense like a hamburger at McDonalds. A gun is an asset that will retain the greater part of it's value and hold that value over time even when you are in an extremely inflationary economy (which will happen in the US in the next few years) I have never lost money on a firearm that I owned for over five years. Isabel.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Thu May 14, 2009 12:36 pm

coker wrote:I want to win a gold medal,

By that I presume that you mean an Olympic Gold Medal. If that is the case then I also presume you realise that, unless you intend to become a full time athlete, you stand very little chance.

If you are a full time athlete then splitting your time between AP and FP will only be beneficial, it will help to prevent staleness.

If you intend devoting somewhat less than 40-50 hours per week to training then you might want to lower your sights a bit.

I'm sorry if that sounds brutal but I have seen too many people over the years who think they can reach the very pinnacle of the sport with just 2-3 hours per day training. It isn't going to happen.

edit note: Sorry, you caught me in a bad mood. I stand by what I said, but maybe I could have said it more gently. Rules 1 & 2 of goal setting, they must be realistic and achievable.

muffo as guest · Post by **muffo as guest** » Sat May 16, 2009 3:20 am

You will probably also find that if you shoot only one match you are putting a lot more pressure to perform on your self. If you shoot 2 matches that are very similar (air and free) you will sometime turn out a very good score in the match you dont train at because you dont put any pressure on your self in it as its just for fun