What gun is this? ISSF compliant?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:58 pm

While navigating through a forum I'm unfamiliar with I came across these pictures:

Does somebody know what brand and model that gun is and whether it is or has ever been used in any of the several ISSF disciplines?

Mike M. · Post by **Mike M.** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:02 pm

Congrats. You just found a firearm I can't identify. Looks like an ISSF gun, most likely in .22LR. The design looks vaguely Russian or Eastern European.

Spencer · Post by **Spencer** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:26 pm

that grip and magazine look more like an old (.22Short) Rapid Fire

toznerd · Post by **toznerd** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:27 pm

The documents behind the first pic are Patent documents in Cyrillic. Spencer, I'm not so sure I see a magazine. If you look where the bolt ends up in battery, visualize where a round might be picked up from a magazine. It may use a tubular magazine under the barrel. Hard to say without a view of the other side. It looks Walther-ish, but I can't see a magazine crammed into the space in front of the trigger.. It also looks like the centerline of the bore is exactly even with the overhang of the grip tang. This may be an old .22 short design that simply never made production. I can't read the documents well enough to note the designer. The clearest date looks like 27 September 1964. The barrel shroud looks Like "ARAKOV S8" but just a guess. For all we know it is an underwater dart gun used by KGB.

toznerd

jipe · Post by **jipe** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:57 am

The global look is of a .22 short RF pistol.

The breech is pretty low and inline with a compensator (light grey part) what give the possibility that the barrel is very low, inline with the breech, i.e. located in the lower part of the light grey module.

The breech spring is well visible and there is something that looks like the rear part of the firing pin at the rear of the breech. There is also a hammer visible on the upper part of the trigger assembly.

Then there is space above the compensator+barrel+breech, could it be possible that the magazine is tubular and located above the barrel ?

boris · Post by **boris** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:20 pm

toznerd wrote:The barrel shroud looks Like "ARAKOV S8" but just a guess. toznerd

It reads "DRAGON 88" (Translation from Russian)

toznerd · Post by **toznerd** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:39 pm

Hey Boris,

Thanks for the translation. Can you look at the patent documents in the first pic and see if there are any other clues concerning the year of patent award or designer/design firm? Maybe that will help.

большое спасибо,

toznerd

boris · Post by **boris** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:57 pm

Patent documents are dated 1963-1964.
Last name of the author is not readable (4-5 char). First/middle name, from what I can tell, is Vladimir Anatolievich (or Leonidovich or Davidovich)?
Patent was awarded to the individual, not to the company and registered in Russian Federation.
Lower documents are Authors certificates.

Last two patents state the inventions names:
Cartridge for Self-loading Pistol;
Sport Self-loading Pistol.

Note: "Self-Loading" pistol in Russian is what called semiautomatic.

keithwwalker · Post by **keithwwalker** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:45 am

fwiw, I just ordered this book on target pistols of the DDR:

http://www.dwj-medien.de/oxid.php/sid/f ... -Pistolen/

But that pistol is surely Russian, if not Ukranian...

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:08 am

keithwwalker wrote:But that pistol is surely Russian, if not Ukranian...

I don't think so.

Ziegenhahn & Sohn OHG
Suhler Str. 9a
98544 Zella-Mehlis
GERMANY
Tel: +49 3682896 21
Fax: +49 3682896 28

patro5 · Post by **patro5** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:57 am

The Zeigenhahn when made in the past in the then DDR was an updated Margolin, it was a a Margolin .22 modified in East Germany and was available for Standard pistol, in fact a very good modification of the Margolin.