Tie Breaker rules query

[Nev C]

I shot an air pistol match this weekend and tied with another shooter with a score of 543, he had 3 inner 10s recorded and I had 8 recorded.
The tie was for second place. He was ranked above me when the final scores were posted and I queried this with both a judge and the club scorer. After a short deliberation, the other shooter was confirmed second and I was listed as third. The reason given was that he rated higher than me on scoring countback. The new ISSF rules seem to indicate to me that because I had more inner 10s I should have been awarded second place.
Has anyone had any experience with tie breaks under the new rules?
Who should have won the tie break?

[David Levene]

This is a bit difficult because, under strict ISSF rules, there would always be a final in AP60.

In general though you are correct. Ties where there are no finals or shoot-offs are broken by total number of inner tens (in the complete match), followed by countback in ten shot series, followed by number of 10s,9s, etc.

IMHO you should have been ranked in 2nd place.

[Left_of_Center]

This is a bit difficult because, under strict ISSF rules, there would always be a final in AP60.

In general though you are correct. Ties where there are no finals or shoot-offs are broken by total number of inner tens (in the complete match), followed by countback in ten shot series, followed by number of 10s,9s, etc.

IMHO you should have been ranked in 2nd place.

From the NRA International Style Rules:

15.3 Free and Air Pistol Individual Ties -tie scores for the first ten places will be broken in the following
order:

(a) By the highest score of the last 10 shots fired, working forward by 10 shot strings until the tie is broken.

(b) By the highest number of 10, 9, 8, etc.

(c) By the highest number of inner tens.

(d) All ties for places below the last award may be listed with equal rank in alphabetical order using the

competitor’s family name. An appropriate number of spaces and numbers will be left vacant after each
such listing, before the next ranking is numbered.

I would have guessed that the inner 10s would have been counted first.

[Steve Swartz as Guest]

Was this competition conducted under ISSF rules or NRA rules?

[David Levene]

From the NRA International Style Rules:

15.3 Free and Air Pistol Individual Ties -tie scores for the first ten places will be broken in the following
order:

(a) By the highest score of the last 10 shots fired, working forward by 10 shot strings until the tie is broken.

(b) By the highest number of 10, 9, 8, etc.

(c) By the highest number of inner tens.

(d) All ties for places below the last award may be listed with equal rank in alphabetical order using the

competitor’s family name. An appropriate number of spaces and numbers will be left vacant after each
such listing, before the next ranking is numbered.

I would have guessed that the inner 10s would have been counted first.

From those rules the inner tens would be the last thing to be considered.

As the original post was from Australia though I wouldn't have thought that US domestic rules would have applied.

[RobStubbs]

As Steve says, what rules was the competition shot under ? 2009 ISSF rules would be on inner tens and it would appear therefore that you should have been placed 2nd. Own national rules etc, then it would depend what they say.

Rob.

[Spencer]

I have not yet fully gone into the situation, but the computer program used for the results at this competition has an update for the changed tie-breaking (and has a glitch) - funny how many people will believe the computer...

Spencer

[Guest]

Yes, there was a glitch, I found it last week at Glen Innes Open. I fixed it onsite but waited until we ran it again at the Brisbane Open last weekend - now updated on AusPistol. Also added X count for 50m & Air when scoring in 10 shot series to make things easier. PS, We had a lot of trouble convincing some QLD Referees that we need Xs called in all matches, some thought it was only for 50m & Air. It was soon sorted when they were shown a document from Spencer. Thanks Bruce F

[Left_of_Center]

From those rules the inner tens would be the last thing to be considered.

As the original post was from Australia though I wouldn't have thought that US domestic rules would have applied.

Sorry about that -- I should have paid more attention to the origin. Here are the 2009 ISSF rules:

6.14 TIE-BREAKING
6.14.1 Individual Ties
6.14.1.1 All tied scores will be broken except for perfect scores.
6.14.2 Ties for the 300 m, 50 m, 10 m and 25 m events (if there is not a
Shoot-off) will be decided by the following Count Back Rules:
6.14.2.1 the highest number of inner tens;
6.14.2.2 the highest score of the last ten shot series working backward by
10 shot series in full ring scoring (not inner tens or decimals) until
the tie is broken;
6.14.2.3 the highest number of 10’s, 9’s, 8’s, etc.;
6.14.2.4 if any ties remain, the shooters must have the same ranking and
must be listed in Latin alphabetical order using the shooter’s family
name.

You should have been placed second according to ISSF.

[Nev C]

Was this competition conducted under ISSF rules or NRA rules?

ISSF rules, there seemed to be some confusion about the role of inner tens with a tie break, I think that it was just left to the computer to sort it out.

[Spencer]

see post above from Bruce F