About me:
I shoot Bullseye (expert w/22), and really enjoy 10m air. Our club has a range, and members have let me handle their high end PCPs. To my unfamiliar hands they are all feathers with hair triggers. I have shot maybe 20 shots with them, always in the black but always releasing the shot before I even intended to. So I barely know what I'm doing.
By comparison, with a 1911 for example, I know exactly which kinds of grips I like or don't like, which LPI checkering works for me, arched or flat MSH, etc. etc. That came through a lot of trial and error, and owning one for a while.
Purpose:
I guess fun in and of itself, but of course to help train for Bullseye generally. Since the club does not (yet) have sanctioned 10m matches for adults, I don't see competing anytime soon.
What I'm looking for:
Basically a pistol that I can't out shoot, will reasonably hold its value, and will introduce me to 10m mechanics/grips/etc so I can find out what I like and don't like. In short, a good beginners pistol.
So far the only gun that seems to fit this category is the IZH 46M. But I've never held/shot one, and probably wouldn't have the opportunity to until it arrived. I'm hesitant to pursue a PCP, not knowing the first thing about what I like or don't like about airguns. Particularly triggers...I thought I had a finely tuned trigger finger until I handled the airguns. One-stage, two-stage, all meaningless to me at this point.
But I'm open to suggestions. Is there an ideal starter PCP gun? Should I try to find something used? Or is the IZH 46m the way to go?
I currently shoot a S&W 78G (which I feel I am out shooting) daily, so the pistol would replace that and be shot 50-100 times a day, live or dry.
Thanks
Help selecting airgun - Bullseye refugee
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superstring
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:16 pm
- Location: Victoria, BC Canada
Hi mcb
I own an Steyr LP5. This is the older version of the current LP50. Although I have never shot Bullseye, I have been told that the LP5/LP50, with their 5 shot magazines and single stage triggers (which can be set from ~300g - ~1.5 kg.), make excellent trainers for Bullseye. There is even a 1911 style grip for the 5/50 available from Pilkguns.
http://www.pilkguns.com/pistolaccessories.shtml (about half way down the page)
I love the feel and balance and really like the fact there is so much adjustability for the grip and trigger. This is my first and, at the moment, only air pistol and what I DO know is that it is a lot of fun to shoot and has provided me with many hours of pleasure. AND it will be a long, long time before I'll be able to take full advantage of its' accuracy at 10m!
Good luck with your search.
I own an Steyr LP5. This is the older version of the current LP50. Although I have never shot Bullseye, I have been told that the LP5/LP50, with their 5 shot magazines and single stage triggers (which can be set from ~300g - ~1.5 kg.), make excellent trainers for Bullseye. There is even a 1911 style grip for the 5/50 available from Pilkguns.
http://www.pilkguns.com/pistolaccessories.shtml (about half way down the page)
I love the feel and balance and really like the fact there is so much adjustability for the grip and trigger. This is my first and, at the moment, only air pistol and what I DO know is that it is a lot of fun to shoot and has provided me with many hours of pleasure. AND it will be a long, long time before I'll be able to take full advantage of its' accuracy at 10m!
Good luck with your search.
Whew... You're about to get every opinion possible. I feel strongly about this since I've just gone through this very scenario.
I've been shooting an Izzy seriously for about 6 months. The pistol should have been sold for $600+. It's highly accurate, extremely well built (all metal and like Russian tank) and will out-shoot the shooter into the 570's without issue. The caveat is that it's not the best balanced pistol. But for new AP shooters, the nuances of such balance won't be appreciated until shooting consistently anyway and with some experience under your belt. For $300, you will not find a better over all value. You will be able to sell it in good condition for $250 when you do upgrade.
Now, instead of assigning a score to when it's time to upgrade (DRAMA!!!), I will just say that if you shoot an hour a day for 6 months with the Izzy and you still enjoy shooting and you're still serious about shooting AP competitively and getting better, step up to one of the standard world class PC pistols. By that time you will also have had a chance to handle some of the pistols at matches --you might be considering. You can then make an informed decision on the best grip on the best balanced pistol for YOU before making the significant investment.
If after 6-months you've lost interest, or you've decided that you've gone far enough and you are happy shooting the scores you're shooting, no need to upgrade and you've saved a bundle of money.
Oz
I've been shooting an Izzy seriously for about 6 months. The pistol should have been sold for $600+. It's highly accurate, extremely well built (all metal and like Russian tank) and will out-shoot the shooter into the 570's without issue. The caveat is that it's not the best balanced pistol. But for new AP shooters, the nuances of such balance won't be appreciated until shooting consistently anyway and with some experience under your belt. For $300, you will not find a better over all value. You will be able to sell it in good condition for $250 when you do upgrade.
Now, instead of assigning a score to when it's time to upgrade (DRAMA!!!), I will just say that if you shoot an hour a day for 6 months with the Izzy and you still enjoy shooting and you're still serious about shooting AP competitively and getting better, step up to one of the standard world class PC pistols. By that time you will also have had a chance to handle some of the pistols at matches --you might be considering. You can then make an informed decision on the best grip on the best balanced pistol for YOU before making the significant investment.
If after 6-months you've lost interest, or you've decided that you've gone far enough and you are happy shooting the scores you're shooting, no need to upgrade and you've saved a bundle of money.
Oz
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gordonfriesen
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:31 pm
MCB,
As you can see from the two last posts, it mostly matters what you want to do with your gun, and how much you want to pay.
If you want to shoot serious AP, there seems to be nothing cheaper than the izh-46 which has the two stage trigger adjustabiity that you would want.
But if you are training for bullseye, then one would ask what benefit you can hope for from a 500 gram trigger in two stages? The LP50 mentionned above looks like one outstanding gun, and you can buy a heavy trigger and practice five-shot strings. On the negative side, it is sixteen inches long, which might feel unbulseye-like, and it costs two grand (which may or my not be an issue).
I have been researching this myself, and the gun I want is sold by crossman. Unfortunately I can't get it imported to Canada, but that is another story. This gun has a one stage trigger (adjustable 1-4 pounds), and uses disposable co2 cartridges. It therefore requires no cranking. It is not a repeater, but a single shot target trainer. It is also dirt cheap. In its stock configuration, it is 13 incnes long, with a 10.5 inch barrel and weighs 2.66 pounds. It is called the 2300t. But when you go to the Crosman site, you see a tab labelled "custom" and here you can build the same gun with a 7 inch barrel. You also have a choice of wood or plastic grips, left or right. At this point you have a gun which would be useless for AP competition, but I believe excellent for practicing bullseye slowfire (which as everybody knows is where we all need the most work).
I expect it to be accurate, as it runs at 520 fps (which is why it is not sold in Canada).
Here is the Crossman link:
http://www.crosman.com/airguns/
Two other guns which are the right size for bullseye training, but which need to be pumped are the Gamo Compact Target, and the Beeman P3 (this latter recommended by Fred Manus in the ap ballistics thread)
Best Regards,
Gordon
As you can see from the two last posts, it mostly matters what you want to do with your gun, and how much you want to pay.
If you want to shoot serious AP, there seems to be nothing cheaper than the izh-46 which has the two stage trigger adjustabiity that you would want.
But if you are training for bullseye, then one would ask what benefit you can hope for from a 500 gram trigger in two stages? The LP50 mentionned above looks like one outstanding gun, and you can buy a heavy trigger and practice five-shot strings. On the negative side, it is sixteen inches long, which might feel unbulseye-like, and it costs two grand (which may or my not be an issue).
I have been researching this myself, and the gun I want is sold by crossman. Unfortunately I can't get it imported to Canada, but that is another story. This gun has a one stage trigger (adjustable 1-4 pounds), and uses disposable co2 cartridges. It therefore requires no cranking. It is not a repeater, but a single shot target trainer. It is also dirt cheap. In its stock configuration, it is 13 incnes long, with a 10.5 inch barrel and weighs 2.66 pounds. It is called the 2300t. But when you go to the Crosman site, you see a tab labelled "custom" and here you can build the same gun with a 7 inch barrel. You also have a choice of wood or plastic grips, left or right. At this point you have a gun which would be useless for AP competition, but I believe excellent for practicing bullseye slowfire (which as everybody knows is where we all need the most work).
I expect it to be accurate, as it runs at 520 fps (which is why it is not sold in Canada).
Here is the Crossman link:
http://www.crosman.com/airguns/
Two other guns which are the right size for bullseye training, but which need to be pumped are the Gamo Compact Target, and the Beeman P3 (this latter recommended by Fred Manus in the ap ballistics thread)
Best Regards,
Gordon
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mcb
I like to mix things up. I also shoot 2 handed revolver matches. I feel it makes me a better Bullseye shooter, and vice versa. Sometimes non-obvious ideas and concepts carry over. So I think I'd like a true 10meter "experience" rather than just another way to train Bullseye. I am aware some of the guns can be fitted with a 1911 angled grip, but I'd actually like to try the sharper angle of the typical 10m gun.
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Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
I have a Steyr LP50 I am considering putting up for sale. Email me me if intrested.mcb wrote:I like to mix things up. I also shoot 2 handed revolver matches. I feel it makes me a better Bullseye shooter, and vice versa. Sometimes non-obvious ideas and concepts carry over. So I think I'd like a true 10meter "experience" rather than just another way to train Bullseye. I am aware some of the guns can be fitted with a 1911 angled grip, but I'd actually like to try the sharper angle of the typical 10m gun.
The best way to assure retention of value is to buy used - let the original owner eat the big depreciation. That said, used TAU-7s show up regularly in the classifieds, usually in the $300 range. You can use the same CO2 caplets you're already familiar with, and you haven't tied up a lot of $$$ that you have to be afraid of screwing things up.What I'm looking for:
Basically a pistol that I can't out shoot, will reasonably hold its value, and will introduce me to 10m mechanics/grips/etc so I can find out what I like and don't like. In short, a good beginners pistol.
They were standard issue for the very successful MIT teams years ago; rest assured you'll never outshoot it. Plenty of trigger adjustment, lots of opportunity to carve, fill and carve some more on the grip, and much more ability to deal with weight distribution than with the otherwise superb Izh46.
My $0.02 - it's the ideal "starter" 10M pistol.
One more opinion...
One of my favorite guns is the Pardini K58. It has excellent grips, fabulous completely adjustable trigger, and has what it takes to compete in National class competition. It also needs no (read expensive) accessories and can be had used very reasonably.
I trained a new shooter into NRA Master Class using one and I keep one as a spare and to practice with.
I bet if you asked, someone on this forum would sell you one.
One of my favorite guns is the Pardini K58. It has excellent grips, fabulous completely adjustable trigger, and has what it takes to compete in National class competition. It also needs no (read expensive) accessories and can be had used very reasonably.
I trained a new shooter into NRA Master Class using one and I keep one as a spare and to practice with.
I bet if you asked, someone on this forum would sell you one.
I would agree with the others about the Izzy and TAU-7 but also keep an eye out for a Aeron Chameleon or B96 in CO2 for around the same money used. I have an Aeron and it will flat shoot for the money and easy greasy to use without the cocking. While the Izzy is a deal for the money I really don't care for the cocking/loading sequence it entails.
IMO when you get into even this level of pistol 99% of the pistols will outshoot 99% of their owners without even stepping up to a Steyr ;) but the Steyr is the be all end all on the 10m pistol if money is no object.
Bo
IMO when you get into even this level of pistol 99% of the pistols will outshoot 99% of their owners without even stepping up to a Steyr ;) but the Steyr is the be all end all on the 10m pistol if money is no object.
Bo
I agree with the poster above that says to buy used. I bought a used IZH 46-M off the Buy Sell Trade section of this forum, it was as new in box.
If you don't like it, put it back up in the Sale section for what you bought it for, and you basicaly shot it for free. The last time I looked there was a couple at a real good price, and they seem to move pretty good.
If you don't like it, put it back up in the Sale section for what you bought it for, and you basicaly shot it for free. The last time I looked there was a couple at a real good price, and they seem to move pretty good.
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Guest
Don't bother with the 1911 grip for the LP5/50. The resulting balance of the pistol is far too nose heavy. I'd tried it on my LP5 for a few weeks and found that attempting to compensate for the balance negated any potential benefit as a 1911 trainer.
Another pistol to consider is the DU-10, which is a CO2 semi. These aren't of the caliber of an LP50, but they're still extremely accurate.
Another pistol to consider is the DU-10, which is a CO2 semi. These aren't of the caliber of an LP50, but they're still extremely accurate.
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mcb
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Guest