C02 vs. PCP - Does it really matter at the club level?

[Trojan1994]

For someone competing at 10M at the club level where its predominantly a very large group of shooters that just enjoying shooting with other airgunners with relatively relaxed rules as to equipment...does a C02 airgun really have a disadvantage against their PCP counterpart, accuracy wise?

Seems like once you get sighted in, regardless of reasonable temp. changes through the season i.e. 60 - 80 F for average temps in the building you are shooting in, seems like POI shifts at 10M would be insignificant.

What's your take? What would be considered the best of the C02 crop, the Steyr, FWB, Walther, Tau, etc?

Regards,

Tony

[Dogchaser]

Here in CO my friends that use CO2 have issues on cold days.

If their gun is in a cold car on the way to the range for any length of time or the range is cold in the morning they seem to have pressure issues.

My Styer LP2 seems to have no such issues.

[Guest]

Here in CO my friends that use CO2 have issues on cold days.

If their gun is in a cold car on the way to the range for any length of time or the range is cold in the morning they seem to have pressure issues.

My Styer LP2 seems to have no such issues.

Well Dog, it would seem that your CO2 friends need to put their CO2 guns
inside the the car/truck cabin, instead of the ir trunk/truck bed...or get their
car heaters repaired! of course, if they are shooting in 45 degree temperature
and below...that's different; you can expect some significant POI change.
I have shot my CO2 LP1 in temps ranging from 52-102 degrees. I still
got no apparent POI shift. Most CO2 hysteria is just that...Hysteria. But
I guess let that Hysterical fear continue; because it drives the price down
on some outrageously accurate 10 meter match guns.

Tony G

[Guest]

For someone competing at 10M at the club level where its predominantly a very large group of shooters that just enjoying shooting with other airgunners with relatively relaxed rules as to equipment...does a C02 airgun really have a disadvantage against their PCP counterpart, accuracy wise?

Seems like once you get sighted in, regardless of reasonable temp. changes through the season i.e. 60 - 80 F for average temps in the building you are shooting in, seems like POI shifts at 10M would be insignificant.

What's your take? What would be considered the best of the C02 crop, the Steyr, FWB, Walther, Tau, etc?

Regards,

Tony

Merry Christmas Tony! I'm biased...I prefer the Steyr LP1-C over any other
CO2 charged pistol out there. Actually I prefer the LP1-C over any CA air pistol, period.
As for accuracy compared to CA.... the world record for a 60 shot match
is held by a CO2 pistol, the FWB Model 2. The world record Match + final
is held by another CO2 pistol, the Steyr LP1-C. Those world records are
held by the same person, a Russian shooter. It would seem that feat should
answer your question concerning accuracy
Tony G

[paw080]

Sorry Guys, I posted replies without being logged in. I'm PAW080.
Tony G

[j-team]

My experience backs what paw080 says.

The most accurate air pistol I've ever owned (machine rest testing) was the Steyr LP1-C CO2 pistol that I had in the late 1990s. The LP10 and Pardini that I've had since couldn't match the test groups of the LP1-C. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the LP10 or Pardini, as both produced very good test groups, just not as good as the LP1. I often wonder if the porting of the barrels slightly degrades accuracy?

As to the CO2 vs PCP question. My concern with CO2 is that it will become more and more difficult to fill. The cylinders age (and technically they should be checked or replace, but no-one does) and the more PCP pistols are around the less CO2 bottles are available to fill from. Not a problem when you are at home and have yor own supply, but if away at a competition it's much easier to find a dive bottle.

For me here in New Zealand, I can drive 5 minute to the local dive shop to get a fill. Filling a CO2 bottle is much more of a hassle (although they do last a long time between fills).

[Trojan1994]

Here in CO my friends that use CO2 have issues on cold days.

If their gun is in a cold car on the way to the range for any length of time or the range is cold in the morning they seem to have pressure issues.

My Styer LP2 seems to have no such issues.

so it doesn't get that cold where I shoot at...

Regards,

Tony

[Trojan1994]

Here in CO my friends that use CO2 have issues on cold days.

If their gun is in a cold car on the way to the range for any length of time or the range is cold in the morning they seem to have pressure issues.

My Styer LP2 seems to have no such issues.

Well Dog, it would seem that your CO2 friends need to put their CO2 guns
inside the the car/truck cabin, instead of the ir trunk/truck bed...or get their
car heaters repaired! of course, if they are shooting in 45 degree temperature
and below...that's different; you can expect some significant POI change.
I have shot my CO2 LP1 in temps ranging from 52-102 degrees. I still
got no apparent POI shift. Most CO2 hysteria is just that...Hysteria. But
I guess let that Hysterical fear continue; because it drives the price down
on some outrageously accurate 10 meter match guns.

Tony G

A Steyr LP1 C02 pistol is a blip on the incoming radar from a source/enabler of ours, lol...so I'm very intrigued...another friend of ours has offered his LP1-C02 and another precharged gun as part of a swap with one of my FT guns that apparently caught his eye, lol...

Admittedly though, that one 12fpe AZ tuned LP1 pcp pistol keeps gnawing at me as well as a pistol FT and/or silhouette gun...

Regards,

Tony

[Trojan1994]

My experience backs what paw080 says.

The most accurate air pistol I've ever owned (machine rest testing) was the Steyr LP1-C CO2 pistol that I had in the late 1990s. The LP10 and Pardini that I've had since couldn't match the test groups of the LP1-C. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the LP10 or Pardini, as both produced very good test groups, just not as good as the LP1. I often wonder if the porting of the barrels slightly degrades accuracy?

As to the CO2 vs PCP question. My concern with CO2 is that it will become more and more difficult to fill. The cylinders age (and technically they should be checked or replace, but no-one does) and the more PCP pistols are around the less CO2 bottles are available to fill from. Not a problem when you are at home and have yor own supply, but if away at a competition it's much easier to find a dive bottle.

For me here in New Zealand, I can drive 5 minute to the local dive shop to get a fill. Filling a CO2 bottle is much more of a hassle (although they do last a long time between fills).

So is there a shortage/lack of availability of replacement C02 cylinders for these Steyrs?

I have no worries on refilling the cylinders as I'm set up with a 20lb. Bulk fill Station at home for charging my other C02 guns and have multiple smaller 20oz. to 3.5oz. tanks that I could use as smaller field/travel sized refill stations...

Regards,

Tony

[j-team]

So is there a shortage/lack of availability of replacement C02 cylinders for these Steyrs?

As far as I know, Steyr still provide parts and service. But, like all things, the more time passes from them being current production the more the likelyhood of difficulty sourcing parts could become.

[Dogchaser]

Here in CO my friends that use CO2 have issues on cold days.

If their gun is in a cold car on the way to the range for any length of time or the range is cold in the morning they seem to have pressure issues.

My Styer LP2 seems to have no such issues.

Well Dog, it would seem that your CO2 friends need to put their CO2 guns
inside the the car/truck cabin, instead of the ir trunk/truck bed...or get their
car heaters repaired! of course, if they are shooting in 45 degree temperature
and below...that's different; you can expect some significant POI change.
I have shot my CO2 LP1 in temps ranging from 52-102 degrees. I still
got no apparent POI shift. Most CO2 hysteria is just that...Hysteria. But
I guess let that Hysterical fear continue; because it drives the price down
on some outrageously accurate 10 meter match guns.

Tony G

Sometimes if the temps are much below 20*F and you go to work or out fooling around somewhere the gun gets cold no matter what.

One shooter has an LP1 and it feels great.

I went with PCP because it was easier to buy a pump than deal with gas shops.

[paw080]

"Sometimes if the temps are much below 20*F and you go to work or out fooling around somewhere the gun gets cold no matter what.
One shooter has an LP1 and it feels great.
I went with PCP because it was easier to buy a pump than deal with gas shops."

Well Dog, what you say does make sense....
Tony G

[Guest]

Here's what Olympic medalist Don Nygord had to say on the subject:

http://nygord-precison.com/press.htm

I'd say, at any level, it doesn't matter at all. Some people think so. This enables you to buy completely competitive APs for your shooters at nice low prices.

[Spencer]

Here's what Olympic medalist Don Nygord had to say on the subject:

http://nygord-precison.com/press.htm

I'd say, at any level, it doesn't matter at all. Some people think so. This enables you to buy completely competitive APs for your shooters at nice low prices.

don't know where guest got that hyphen from, but http://www.nygordprecision.com/press.htm works

Spencer

[David Levene]

Out of interest, do any of the major "top level" manufacturers still make CO2 target quality pistols.

I can't find any sign of one on the web sites of Steyr, Morini, MG, Pardini, SAM, FAS, Walther, Hammerli or Benelli (in no particular order).

[newbie]

i just bought an LP1C this afternoon, and i can't tell you how thrilled my coach was to hear i was 'thinking' about it, let alone that i bought it.

he's been in the sport since it was fashionable to shoot CO2 pistols, and still today he says, and i quote, "I LOVE the Steyr LP1. It's what I shoot."

now if a top int'l AP coach can say that after decades of being in the sport, that pretty seals the deal for me, we have 'nothing' to worry about.

that's my two cents.

hope it helps someone.

happy new year!!!

[pbrejsa]

Current world record in 10 metre air pistol - 593 Sergei Pyzhianov (URS) with Feinwerkbau Model 2, it's CO2 pistol.

[jipe]

For someone competing at 10M at the club level where its predominantly a very large group of shooters that just enjoying shooting with other airgunners with relatively relaxed rules as to equipment...does a C02 airgun really have a disadvantage against their PCP counterpart, accuracy wise?

No difference for the same quality of pistol.

Seems like once you get sighted in, regardless of reasonable temp. changes through the season i.e. 60 - 80 F for average temps in the building you are shooting in, seems like POI shifts at 10M would be insignificant.

Not an issue.

What's your take? What would be considered the best of the C02 crop, the Steyr, FWB, Walther, Tau, etc?

Regards,

Tony

The Steyr LP1-C or LP10-C (yes, there were CO2 LP10).

You say "at club level", the only issue is CO2 reloading: many clubs now have air bottles (or a compressor) for reloading PCP pistols (and rifles). Few club still have a CO2 bottle => if you buy a CO2 pistol, you probably will be forced to buy your own CO2 bottle while for a PCP pistol you could use the one of your club or use a handpump. Worse, if you travel by air, you need to empty your cylinders and load them after the flight => need to find/borrow a CO2 bottle there while you can carry a handpump to reload a PCP pilstol.

[Trojan1994]

For someone competing at 10M at the club level where its predominantly a very large group of shooters that just enjoying shooting with other airgunners with relatively relaxed rules as to equipment...does a C02 airgun really have a disadvantage against their PCP counterpart, accuracy wise?

No difference for the same quality of pistol.

Seems like once you get sighted in, regardless of reasonable temp. changes through the season i.e. 60 - 80 F for average temps in the building you are shooting in, seems like POI shifts at 10M would be insignificant.

Not an issue.

What's your take? What would be considered the best of the C02 crop, the Steyr, FWB, Walther, Tau, etc?

Regards,

Tony

The Steyr LP1-C or LP10-C (yes, there were CO2 LP10).

You say "at club level", the only issue is CO2 reloading: many clubs now have air bottles (or a compressor) for reloading PCP pistols (and rifles). Few club still have a CO2 bottle => if you buy a CO2 pistol, you probably will be forced to buy your own CO2 bottle while for a PCP pistol you could use the one of your club or use a handpump. Worse, if you travel by air, you need to empty your cylinders and load them after the flight => need to find/borrow a CO2 bottle there while you can carry a handpump to reload a PCP pilstol.

No worries on filling any type of airgun, I personally have and can bring:

20lb. Bulk Fill C02 Station
20oz & 9 oz. Bull Fill C02 Station
3300psi air compressor
carbon fiber 4500 psi tanks
Hill Hand Pump

With the people that I've talked to/corresponded with thus far, it appears the C02 gun, particularly the LP-1C is an excellent choice for my conditions where temps will not be swinging dramatically...lots of shots and from what I've heard so far, less muzzle flip/recoil than the pcp counterpart...

Regards,

Tony