Izh35?

[william]

Idle curiosity at work here. There's an Izh35 cult among American bullseye shooters. Do any of the engineers among us have an off the top of the head guess what it would cost to build it in the US with modern production techniques? One would think that injection molding and cnc machining would help compensate for high labor costs.

Heck, they could even eliminate that silly grip safety.

[JamesH]

Take 30% off the price of the AW93 and you'll be about there.

It does have flaws and complications which can be engineered out.

Actually the best option would be to put a big enough order into the Baikal plant and they will make it as you like, probably a lot cheaper than the US ever could.

[Rob]

With some of this Russian stuff, I wonder if theres warehouses with parts and guns packed to the roof? .....just waiting for the next importer!

[j-team]

The grip safety is easy to diactivate, just drive the pin that holds it far enough to the left to remove the safety itself and then knock the pin back to it's original position, done.

JamesH,
What are the "flaws and complications" that need to be engineered out?

[william]

Let me clarify if I may. The Izh35 is a much simpler design than an AW93, so a percentage less than the price of an AW93 doesn't work. Yes, the grip safety is easy enough to disable, but NRA rules require all factory safeties to be functional.

I'm perfectly happy with my Pardini, but I wonder whether a manufacturer like Ruger mightn't be able to produce a world beater for reasonable money.

[tenex]

...
I'm perfectly happy with my Pardini, but I wonder whether a manufacturer like Ruger mightn't be able to produce a world beater for reasonable money.

Well, look at why the IZH was such a hit in the first place: a fully adjustable target trigger and anatomical grips for $400 or so (+ decent weight & balance). None of the US manufacturers currently do this. If S&W could put a similar trigger on the 41, it would be a great target pistol. With the removable barrel, you could (can) get any weight & balance you want, and the frame design suits an anatomical grip very well.

That being said, the real magic of the IZH was the $400 price. for $800, the Benelli MP-95 is probably just as good (IMO).

Steve.

[JamesH]

With some of this Russian stuff, I wonder if theres warehouses with parts and guns packed to the roof? .....just waiting for the next importer!

According to the Australian importer they are all built to order in batches.
When orders add up to >1,000s they kick off a batch.

Yes, the grip safety is easy enough to disable, but NRA rules require all factory safeties to be functional.

So if the factory doesn't fit one you're OK.

What are the "flaws and complications" that need to be engineered out?

Some areas in the frame are super thin where they could easily add more metal, way too many machining operations.
Slide and breechface peen the crap out of themselves.
Trigger bar should be thicker, it wears a groove in the slide, and its a bit floppy, the tip tends to require adjustment for a decent trigger pull - maybe that could be engineered out.
More adjustment in the trigger would be nice
Needs a better red-dot mount.
Stripping is a bit awkward, a captive spring like the FAS would help
A more robust extractor - they tend to get blown out, and the extractor piston is way too flimsy
Barrel quality is variable, not in terms of accuracy but in terms of leading

I could probably think of more

[Fred Mannis]

That being said, the real magic of the IZH was the $400 price

Some areas in the frame are super thin where they could easily add more metal, way too many machining operations.
Slide and breechface peen the crap out of themselves.
Trigger bar should be thicker, it wears a groove in the slide, and its a bit floppy, the tip tends to require adjustment for a decent trigger pull - maybe that could be engineered out.
More adjustment in the trigger would be nice
Needs a better red-dot mount.
Stripping is a bit awkward, a captive spring like the FAS would help
A more robust extractor - they tend to get blown out, and the extractor piston is way too flimsy
Barrel quality is variable, not in terms of accuracy but in terms of leading

Most of us spend $$$$$ for pistols that will last and can be handed down to our children/grandchildren. Perhaps what we need is a good reliable pistol, like the IZH-35, that is so cheap we can shoot it for 20+ years, then, when it wears out, throw it away. Besides, the ways things are going, our grandchildren probably won't be allowed to own a pistol.

[Brian James]

Fred,

Did you ever determine which Wolff springs would work in your IZH?

Brian

[Fred Mannis]

Fred,

Did you ever determine which Wolff springs would work in your IZH?

Brian

No, I never followed up on that. I still have a spare, new, recoil spring; and the gun is working so well that I have no incentive to try Ruig's dual spring approach. Maybe someday if I ever get into ORF....... :-)

Fred

[JamesH]

The Izh35 could probably last a lot longer, and be simpler to manufacture, with a few minor design changes.

[j-team]

I purchased my IZH35 (not the M) new, it was made in 1989. I shot tens of thousands of rounds through it over the 10 years that I owned it and can honestly say that I only had a handfull of malfunctions and nothing ever broke or fell off.

In 1999 I sold it to one of my clubmates who still has it and it's still going strong.

I only fired standard velocity (mostly Lapua) and rarely cleaned it.

I think, like most European target pistols thay are not designed to fire high velocity ammo (and I include American "standard velocity" ammo in that catagory). I know someone who has broken two slides on a FWB AW93 by firing high velocity ammo.