Aluminum pellets
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963
Aluminum pellets
Anybody have any experience with .177 H&N Sport, Match Green,5.25gr, lead free pellets? We received them in a grant for our 4H SS air rifle/pistol program. Will these do any damage to our equipment? Will they make a significant change in point of impact on the target? Thanks, Brian Nugent
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Thomas Monto
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- Location: Midland, MI
Re: Aluminum pellets
Have not been impressed with the non-lead pellets so far.
It is best to test the pellets in the rifle or pistol they will be used. We clamp the rifle in a solid base and shoot some five shot groups. This will give you an idea of how they perform.
It is best to test the pellets in the rifle or pistol they will be used. We clamp the rifle in a solid base and shoot some five shot groups. This will give you an idea of how they perform.
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TenMetrePeter
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Re: Aluminum pellets
I would put them on Ebay. Use the money to buy some real pellets for the club.
Re: Aluminum pellets
I have never heard of or tried these but....
From a purely metals standpoint, I think you would experience accelerated barrel wear. Aluminum alloys oxidize very, very fast, and those oxides are as hard as diamond. Aluminum oxides are a major component in most grinding stones and emery cloths. This accounts for their dark gray color.
From a purely metals standpoint, I think you would experience accelerated barrel wear. Aluminum alloys oxidize very, very fast, and those oxides are as hard as diamond. Aluminum oxides are a major component in most grinding stones and emery cloths. This accounts for their dark gray color.
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HectorMedina
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- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:46 pm
Re: Aluminum pellets
Lead free pellets are NOT made of Aluminum.
They are made of Tin (Sn in the periodical table of elements and a common component of solders)
Pure tin is soft enough to be swaged in lead dies with minimal changes in the setup.
They will NOT erode your barrel, the hardest tin is much softer than the softest steel.
They will NOT oxidize.
SOME guns shoot non-lead pellets well, others don't. You need to test.
Stick to quality offerings (GTO's are made by JSB and H&N uses its own brand) and you'll be fine as long as your barrel likes them.
Because they tend to fly much faster, SOME barrels will shoot well pellets with a little lubricant, like T-9, KryTech FL, or Pledge.
Whether we like it or not, we're not far from becoming a lead-free world.
JMHO
HM
They are made of Tin (Sn in the periodical table of elements and a common component of solders)
Pure tin is soft enough to be swaged in lead dies with minimal changes in the setup.
They will NOT erode your barrel, the hardest tin is much softer than the softest steel.
They will NOT oxidize.
SOME guns shoot non-lead pellets well, others don't. You need to test.
Stick to quality offerings (GTO's are made by JSB and H&N uses its own brand) and you'll be fine as long as your barrel likes them.
Because they tend to fly much faster, SOME barrels will shoot well pellets with a little lubricant, like T-9, KryTech FL, or Pledge.
Whether we like it or not, we're not far from becoming a lead-free world.
JMHO
HM
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atomicgale
- Posts: 854
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- Location: Copperhill Tennessee USA (a registered CERCLA superfund site)
Re: Aluminum pellets
The best use for aluminum (or tin) pellets is to toss them directly into the garbage can.
When they reach the landfill, you know your investment didn't contaminate the ground water . . . or trash your barrel.
When they reach the landfill, you know your investment didn't contaminate the ground water . . . or trash your barrel.
Re: Aluminum pellets
Honest question: as long as the range is properly ventilated, the shot pellets are disposed properly, and the shooters wash their hands after shooting, what is exactly the big deal with lead?
Re: Aluminum pellets
There isn't one unless you want there to be.
Re: Aluminum pellets
I think this is what you're asking...
The big deal is lead vapors and lead dust. These are usually the result of people shooting bullets with an exposed lead base in a firearm.
The act of igniting gun powder to propel a bullet down a barrel means the propellant, which is burning at ~1000°F, is melting the base of the bullet which it is pushing. That in turn vaporizes the base of the bullet. Those vapors then settle on every horizontal surface within the range, to be stirred up and inhaled by occupants. If you go into an older indoor shooting range you can usually swipe a finger on any horizontal surface and it will come up gray. That's lead dust.
BB's and pellets DO NOT use fire to propel the "bullet", and are therefore not a health concern.
The big deal is lead vapors and lead dust. These are usually the result of people shooting bullets with an exposed lead base in a firearm.
The act of igniting gun powder to propel a bullet down a barrel means the propellant, which is burning at ~1000°F, is melting the base of the bullet which it is pushing. That in turn vaporizes the base of the bullet. Those vapors then settle on every horizontal surface within the range, to be stirred up and inhaled by occupants. If you go into an older indoor shooting range you can usually swipe a finger on any horizontal surface and it will come up gray. That's lead dust.
BB's and pellets DO NOT use fire to propel the "bullet", and are therefore not a health concern.
Last edited by rfwhatley on Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Aluminum pellets
I use H&N alloy and they work, but not as well.my choice
That said lead is lead and it is not a safe material to work with. As an artist in the past, a builder of race Karts, motorcycles and just general automotive stuff and a shooter all I can state is that lead is absorbed into the body by touch, inhalation and digestion (who would do that I don't know but I added it). Try this with clean hands:
Get a clove of garlic, squash it and rub it between your thumb and fingers. wait about 15+ minutes and then see what your taste buds seem to be telling you. It's an experiment that many art teachers suggest to beginning art students. In the past lead was everywhere in art paint and gasoline. Your body absorbs it. Anything you put on your body, makeup, cream shaving soap, no matter its absorbed into the body.
You have to make the decision but the stuff is dangerous to long term health.
My 2 Cents.
That said lead is lead and it is not a safe material to work with. As an artist in the past, a builder of race Karts, motorcycles and just general automotive stuff and a shooter all I can state is that lead is absorbed into the body by touch, inhalation and digestion (who would do that I don't know but I added it). Try this with clean hands:
Get a clove of garlic, squash it and rub it between your thumb and fingers. wait about 15+ minutes and then see what your taste buds seem to be telling you. It's an experiment that many art teachers suggest to beginning art students. In the past lead was everywhere in art paint and gasoline. Your body absorbs it. Anything you put on your body, makeup, cream shaving soap, no matter its absorbed into the body.
You have to make the decision but the stuff is dangerous to long term health.
My 2 Cents.
Re: Aluminum pellets
Respectfully, the impact of the pellet on most steel box style target carriers causes lead dust to be generated by the impact forces itself. Agreed it is a smaller issue, but it does exist.....
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shakestheclown
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- Location: Cincinnati, OH
Re: Aluminum pellets
I agree that it is the lead dust that presents the most hazard with shooting pellets. The dust is created when the pellets hit a solid surface and deform. like when using metal pellet traps. I made a nice steel trap with angled deflection baffles and a collection tray. When cleaning out the tray, there was a fair amount of lead flakes and gray dust. Since this was near my furnace, I decided this was not a good idea. I replaced it with a trap filled with fabric scraps. Much quieter and no dust.
The lead accumulates and can affect the development of kids, so maybe lead-free pellets are good for a youth program. How many of the kids actually wash their hands after handling the pellets?
As a old guy, I will still shoot lead pellets as long as they are available.
Don Fine
The lead accumulates and can affect the development of kids, so maybe lead-free pellets are good for a youth program. How many of the kids actually wash their hands after handling the pellets?
As a old guy, I will still shoot lead pellets as long as they are available.
Don Fine
Don F.
220, 221. Whatever it takes.
220, 221. Whatever it takes.
Re: Aluminum pellets
Some of the airborne lead from firearms is from the primers. So even jacketed, or solid copper, bullets aren't eliminating it. And if you live near an airport, there's a chance it's raining down on you from light planes. The gas they use is loaded with lead. I heard somewhere the 'low lead' has 5x the amount of lead even the highest auto gas ever had.
Here's what it looks like on some cameras that were in a well in a Cessna. The guys working on these were somehow unaware of what it was. They quickly stocked up on cleaning supplies after I told them.
Here's what it looks like on some cameras that were in a well in a Cessna. The guys working on these were somehow unaware of what it was. They quickly stocked up on cleaning supplies after I told them.
Re: Aluminum pellets
Aviation gas (100Low Lead) has .56 grams per liter.I heard somewhere the 'low lead' has 5x the amount of lead even the highest auto gas ever had.
In 1972 the regular gasoline for autos had 2 grams per gallon (or about 1 gram per Liter).
Keep pellets out of your mouth, and wash up after shooting, and the danger to airgun shooters from lead is extremely low.
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Wile E Coyote
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Re: Aluminum pellets
But you don't have photos of dirty cameras and he clearly heard it somewhere.Pat McCoy wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 9:33 pmAviation gas (100Low Lead) has .56 grams per liter.I heard somewhere the 'low lead' has 5x the amount of lead even the highest auto gas ever had.
In 1972 the regular gasoline for autos had 2 grams per gallon (or about 1 gram per Liter).
Keep pellets out of your mouth, and wash up after shooting, and the danger to airgun shooters from lead is extremely low.
Re: Aluminum pellets
LOL!
I'm more than happy to be wrong about that. I'm currently living across the street from the runway in an 'airpark'. I never got a license, but my dad flew for quite a few years. I remember him making up a special tool, for scraping the solid lead deposits that built up in the sparkplugs. Ugly. But at least part of that is the steady state, RPM and temperatures, they run at for extended periods.
But you gotta wonder ... my girlfriend built this house, and some of her kids seem to be developmentally impaired ... Or I'm just a grouchy old B' now.
I'm more than happy to be wrong about that. I'm currently living across the street from the runway in an 'airpark'. I never got a license, but my dad flew for quite a few years. I remember him making up a special tool, for scraping the solid lead deposits that built up in the sparkplugs. Ugly. But at least part of that is the steady state, RPM and temperatures, they run at for extended periods.
But you gotta wonder ... my girlfriend built this house, and some of her kids seem to be developmentally impaired ... Or I'm just a grouchy old B' now.
Re: Aluminum pellets
So, these pellets are actually made of tin? That's awesome!
I save all my lead pellets and melt them down into lead ingots for bullet casting.
Tin is just what I need to alloy that stuff into harder bullets!
I just hope there's no zinc in there to spoil the party!
I save all my lead pellets and melt them down into lead ingots for bullet casting.
Tin is just what I need to alloy that stuff into harder bullets!
I just hope there's no zinc in there to spoil the party!
Re: Aluminum pellets
Tin poisonous?
Googling: "Tin poisoning refers to the toxic effects of tin and its compounds. Cases of poisoning from tin metal, its oxides, and its salts are "almost unknown"; on the other hand, certain organotin compounds are almost as toxic as cyanide."
Firing tin pellets may not form organic tin compounds, i think.
On the other hand: Googling the term "lead free pellets":
"Lead-free airgun pellets are usually made from zinc alloy. Though harder than lead, this material is still fairly malleable and shouldn't cause any harm to the barrel of your air rifle".
Googling "zinc poisoning": "Zinc is an essential trace metal with very low toxicity in humans". Good news.
From the H&N website: https://www.hn-sport.de/en/air-gun-hunt ... -green-177
"H&N uses GreenLine raw materials-tin, zinc, iron, and plastic-thus avoiding lead".
https://www.amazon.com/Haendler-Naterma ... B07TZXKVQR says just: "Material: Composite".
About the composition of 8 pellets from (presumed) 6 different brands of "lead-free airgun pellets": A (semi)scientific approach her:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... un_Pellets
6 of the 8 pellets "investigated" were made of tin. One made of zinc and aluminium (Skenco), and one made of "Nickel with Gold detected" (!) (Gamo Gold Raptor that was).
Googling: "Tin poisoning refers to the toxic effects of tin and its compounds. Cases of poisoning from tin metal, its oxides, and its salts are "almost unknown"; on the other hand, certain organotin compounds are almost as toxic as cyanide."
Firing tin pellets may not form organic tin compounds, i think.
On the other hand: Googling the term "lead free pellets":
"Lead-free airgun pellets are usually made from zinc alloy. Though harder than lead, this material is still fairly malleable and shouldn't cause any harm to the barrel of your air rifle".
Googling "zinc poisoning": "Zinc is an essential trace metal with very low toxicity in humans". Good news.
From the H&N website: https://www.hn-sport.de/en/air-gun-hunt ... -green-177
"H&N uses GreenLine raw materials-tin, zinc, iron, and plastic-thus avoiding lead".
https://www.amazon.com/Haendler-Naterma ... B07TZXKVQR says just: "Material: Composite".
About the composition of 8 pellets from (presumed) 6 different brands of "lead-free airgun pellets": A (semi)scientific approach her:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... un_Pellets
6 of the 8 pellets "investigated" were made of tin. One made of zinc and aluminium (Skenco), and one made of "Nickel with Gold detected" (!) (Gamo Gold Raptor that was).
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AManWearingAHat
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:18 pm
Re: Aluminum pellets
Zinc can be a problem when heating / casting with it. Be careful in that respect.
Hot working with Zinc or brass can produce zinc fumes and produce the Metal Fume Fever. Other metals can produce it too but Zinc is one of the most notorious because of its very low boiling point and high tendency to volatilize. Google "Zinc Shakes" or "Welding Fever". It's not fun. Its like having a bad flu with sore bones. 0/10 would not recommend.
Hot working with Zinc or brass can produce zinc fumes and produce the Metal Fume Fever. Other metals can produce it too but Zinc is one of the most notorious because of its very low boiling point and high tendency to volatilize. Google "Zinc Shakes" or "Welding Fever". It's not fun. Its like having a bad flu with sore bones. 0/10 would not recommend.